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Phantom white vs silver + general impressions
#81
The most intriguing comparison for me is against the Ensemble system, as instead of going with two Phantoms, I could have bought the Atohm GT1's to go with my D120.
JRiver v25 (Windows) >> 220Pro/CI >> PMC Twenty5.23 + twin KEF KC62 subs. One White Phantom.
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#82
(17-Jul-2015, 07:55)Confused Wrote: Based on my visit to the Oxford Audio Phantom event this week, I have some observations that might be of interest to anyone debating whether or not to spend the extra few pounds (Euros / dollars or whatever) on the Silver.  Previous posts here suggest that the white and silvers sound much the same, and with respect to ultimate sound pressure levels the whites are all you need.  I guess there is some logic here and for many people this will more or less hold true.

However, there was one occasion during the day when we managed to hit the limits of a Phantom.  I have to emphasise that this happened once, on one track, and during the rest of a very long day, all the Phantoms I listened to, at reasonably high, with some demanding music, massive bass sometimes, all sounded like they were cruising.

In OAC's smaller demo room (considered by some to be the better sounding room) we listened to some white Phantoms.  To me, these sounded better than the silvers did in the larger (maybe not quite a good sounding) room.  We then switched to the silvers, which in this room sounded excellent, OAC's Alasdair played his some of his much loved Nils Lofgren, and yes, with this material the little Phantoms really were starting their trick of sounding like a 10 or 20K system, very impressive indeed.  Later we played Rudimental's "Spoons".  Now for those who don't know, this track has a three level bass section, with successive bass tones dropping to a very speaker demanding section which is at the border of being felt rather than heard.  For the first two tones, the Phanoms were perfect the upper and lower bass being very balanced, not really sounding any different to my own KEF Blades.  (in fact you have to get speaker and seating positioning just right with the Blades to sound as even as the Phantoms did!)  However, with the very lowest sub bass section, for the first and only time of the day the Phantoms did struggle slightly, and for a few fractions of a second after the bass section, you could hear the volume of the Phantom drop slightly.  Now this is a very extreme electronic track, but I'm guessing the current involved in trying to produce the almost sub bass section is huge, hence the Phantom was protecting itself with a little thermal management, hence dropping the volume back momentarily.  Also, in fairness, it was a warm day and very (very!) hot in the demo room.  To be clear, this is not a criticism of the Phantoms, I have listened to this slightly notorious track on a number of systems, in some cases the sub bass section is simply not produced, it is not there, on my old JBL's with 400w 12" bass drivers and other some other speakers I have heard, this bass section turns to a messy mush.  The Phantoms had a fair crack at it and held their own!  The point being, that yes, it is just possible to hit the limits of a Phantom.  So depending on how you plan to use them, what type of music you like and so on, it might just be worth the extra few pennies to get the silvers.

In terms of the debate of how powerful is a 3000w Phantom?  The answer is very powerful!  NickB and myself were quizzing the Devialet's Mathieu Pernod on this subject.  It is fair to say that he didn't look like he really wanted to answer, he preferred to talk about it being fully active, SAM etc, and dodged the question.  I think NickB and myself drifted into a good cop / bad cop routine (curiously, I ended up as bad cop), and we did get some info in the end. The point is that the Phantom amps are designed specifically for the Phantom.  Due mainly to the HBI bass system, the Phantom is more or less a 1 ohm load, so the Phantom amps are all about current delivery.  That said, depending on how you look at this figures, the Phantom Silver amp is indeed more powerful than an Expert range amp!  The figures don't really compare with that for something designed for normal speaker loads, but if you really want a number, maybe 400w RMS.  (Gosh!)  It's no wonder that that they sound like a mini night club.

One other teeny tiny nugget of information we got, SAM is there for the bass and midrange, but not for the tweeter, it simply doesn't need it, so it would seem.

Thanks, Confused

Quoting the bold above, can you expand a little on "struggle slightly", please?


On another note, open to everyone who wants to share their experience:

I'm almost sure this has been asked before, I mean, why wouldn't you...

Are the Phantoms neutral, or have you experienced them to go into the bright side; the warm side? Meaning, does it have a signature, instead of the music sounding how it was meant to.

I listened to a pair of B&W CM10 S2, at Best Buy ($4K a pair), and they sounded on the bright side. Maybe the lack of bass leads me to think this, I'm not sure. But it was just something that turned me off, because the music just sounded the same. Like if it had a signature, instead of music sounding how it was meant to.




Thanks.



Dvlt PhD
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#83
Hello again, it has been nearly two weeks with the white Phantom now. Really pleased with how it's sounding, and working.

I don't know if there's any burn in, but things have improved to my ears. It's most likely down to positioning – It's on a sturdy stool around 50cm high which suits my listening position. I'm getting many pleasant surprises as I go through the collection, and it complements my natural sounding (and more 'delicate and refined' sounding) Jadis / Harbeth main system, with the more full range, gutsy sound which you can throw anything at.

I find for lower volumes I like the night feature, which takes some of the bass out and reveals the detail and mid range a little better in my room. When past 40 or 45, it really opens up and it sounds absolutely fantastic. I think (as per other comments) the bass is a bit too much at lower levels otherwise, but the night feature solves it for me.

I agree with other views around giving it some space and a sturdy stand, but I counter some arguments that you need two to get a good sound. Depends on the music, I'm finding some acoustic / folkish music to sound sublime with one channel, almost like the singer is there in the room.

Anyway, really pleased.
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#84
Dvlt PhD

The Phantoms have a neutral sound, with flat frequency response and very low distortion. There is DSP correction of amplitude and timing in bass and mid sections.

Not everybody likes (perhaps because it is not too common) a low colouration neutral sound though...

The bass extension means that careful room positioning is necessary for even in room bass, as it is with any full range speaker.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#85
(22-Jul-2015, 18:03)Novak Wrote: Hello again, it has been nearly two weeks with the white Phantom now. Really pleased with how it's sounding, and working.

I don't know if there's any burn in, but things have improved to my ears. It's most likely down to positioning – It's on a sturdy stool around 50cm high which suits my listening position. I'm getting many pleasant surprises as I go through the collection, and it complements my natural sounding (and more 'delicate and refined' sounding) Jadis / Harbeth main system, with the more full range, gutsy sound which you can throw anything at.

I find for lower volumes I like the night feature, which takes some of the bass out and reveals the detail and mid range a little better in my room. When past 40 or 45, it really opens up and it sounds absolutely fantastic. I think (as per other comments) the bass is a bit too much at lower levels otherwise, but the night feature solves it for me.

I agree with other views around giving it some space and a sturdy stand, but I counter some arguments that you need two to get a good sound. Depends on the music, I'm finding some acoustic / folkish music to sound sublime with one channel, almost like the singer is there in the room.

Anyway, really pleased.

Thanks.  You mentioned that the Jadis/Harbeth are more delicate and refined.  When you set the Phamton on night feature so that bass is less, does the gap in delicacy and refinement close? 

I can only have one system and had decided against it for a more conventional system for the better mids.  But now rethinking it as the system I would have is much larger (floorstander) and less flexible along with less bass extension.  So we are now leaning towards Phantom again for its flexibility and bass extension. The question is how much of the mid/bass quality are we giving up.  We are hoping it will be worthwhile trade off. 

To be able to move a system easily from room to room is a boon.  No way we could do that with a 80 lbs amp, pair of 40 lbs speakers, cables, Dac etc.  Just too much work. But with the Phantom, can just lift two large spheres and replug in another room. 

MtnGuy
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#86
Yes, I'd say the gap closes with the night feature, although would need to do another side by side test.
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#87
Thanks. That was a FAST reply. Smile

MtnGuy
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#88
I had the white version which I thought was excellent but sold it and upgraded to 2 silvers with a dialog.  The whites can go very loud and yes the silvers go even louder but to be honest I can't imagine  many people playing either at full volume.  I live rurally with no neighbours to really worry about and can really crank it up but rarely go past 50-60% volume.  Sonically though I think the silvers are noticeably better through the entire range.  I'm no audio expert and I spoke to many hifi dealers who  couldn't recommend a better system at a similar price point or beyond.
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#89
That's interesting as I distinctly remember seeing an article where Devialet were demonstrating a white and silver Phantom as a stereo pair and when questioned about it, the response was that they were the same, but the silver Phantom goes louder, (if I can find the article, I will post it).
It sounds like you had a single white Phantom and upgraded to a pair of silvers. In that case, I have no doubt that a stereo pair will sound better than a single unit.
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#90
(22-Jul-2015, 18:09)f1eng Wrote: Dvlt PhD

The Phantoms have a neutral sound, with flat frequency response and very low distortion. There is DSP correction of amplitude and timing in bass and mid sections.

Not everybody likes (perhaps because it is not too common) a low colouration neutral sound though...

The bass extension means that careful room positioning is necessary for even in room bass, as it is with any full range speaker.

Thanks, f1eng. I'll keep that in mind.

I have system like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005A...nical-data
Only the placement of the front tweeter driver is different...
I'm ok with it's sound. I can control the bass; treble...
MSRP was probably less than $300...

It's mindboggling that when I listened to the B&W $4k priced pair I mentioned, above...the B&W wasn't worth it, period.
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