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Air (OS X) Problem, what problem?
#11
(31-Jul-2015, 09:24)GuillaumeB Wrote: With my d1 server back in France for an upgrade I have been experimenting with Roon, AIR etc.

Last night I tried Audirvana with AIR. 

I'm using a 13 inch Macbook Air (1.3 GHz Intel Core i5) running OS X Yosemite (10.10.4). Audirvana Plus is version 1.5.12. AIR is 2.1.3

Devialet firmware is 8.1.3 beta. Music files were copied over from my NAS.

At first it sounded awful. Figured something was definitely wrong so checked Audirvana Plus settings. For some reason it was outputting to Dirac! So I changed this to AIR. I also selected Direct Mode.

It now sounded better. I managed to listen to about 4 tracks before the DWN (Dreaded White Noise) arrived! There were also a couple of little pops first as if almost to announce the imminent arrival of DWN.

After this it turned the system off and went to bed.  Sad

Guillaume

How strange is this?  About a year ago white noise looked like it was a Windows 8 only issue, Mac users were ok, even my clapped out old Windows Vista machine worked fine with AIR.  I'm getting the impression that sorting AIR is an ongoing battle with Mac and PC operating system updates, could this be a battle that might never be won?   Although funnily enough, the latest beta version of AIR appears to be fairly usable with most Windows users.
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#12
(31-Jul-2015, 09:44)Confused Wrote: could this be a battle that might never be won?   

I think you might be right there. I am pretty sure that if Devialet decided to throw some serious resources at it they could get it fixed. And by serious resources I mean a team of developers working 24/7 for a couple of months. That's a LOT of money spent on something that won't necessarily boost sales.

Sorry but I just don't see how that's going to happen. 

All I can say is thank goodness there are so many other ways of enjoying the Devialet sound.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#13
Hi Guillaume, 

sorry for you. 
Have you tried without Audirvana and just using iTunes instead in your chain? I am doing so and there is no white noise at all. I use to stream up to 92 khz without any dropouts since the new firmware release playing for hours.
iMac Core i9, Roon lifetime, Qobuz Sublime+, OPPO BDP-103EU, Kanex Pro HDMI Audio Extractor, Dual CS 617Q, Devialet 220 PRO Core Infinity, Bowers&Wilkins 804 D2, Oppo HA2, Sennheiser HD 800S, Living Room, Enjoy Listening, Germany
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#14
In my case, after much testing, iTunes -> Ethernet Air sounded better than Audirvana+ -> USB or Audirvana+ -> Toslink 

(Audirvana+ -> Air giving a lot of problems when changing sample rates - "the chipmunks" or extremely slow)
Oslo: sources: Mac Mini/Itunes/Audirvana,  glassfiber toslink/Mapleshade clearview USB to D200;
Double helix to Gallo Strada 2 with mapleshade stands, TR3 subwoofer.

Spain: Oppo 95 vacuumstate modded, Kimber select 1021, Linn Classik Movie Di to Gallo Solos through Goertz Python cable


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#15
I tried iTunes with AIR over the weekend, having converted a few albums to ALAC. 

Observations:

- Sounds much better than A+, actually I think it is pretty good!
- No DWN or dropouts, admittedly I didn't play for much longer than an hour at a time... but this is encouraging.

I can see why many of you stick with AIR, it sounds good. However playing music that I am very familiar with on the d1 server I can hear very specific differences in detail and presentation. There's almost a little bit of congestion (in the sense that it's harder to follow individual instruments in complex passages) and some of the higher frequencies are being truncated resulting in less detail, you hear it for instance with higher pitched female arias. Then there is this slightly bright, shimmery soundstage... which isn't actually unpleasant but it feels a little unnatural. 

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#16
Guillaume,

I played AIR for about two hours. I was hopeful that DWN was under control, but it eventually came back. I agree sounded pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Antipodes.

Aaron
SYSTEM 1:Grimm MU-1 running Roon Server & Ready//Grimm TPM//GRIMM LS1be
SYSTEM 2: Antipodes DX Roon Server// MiniDSP// Grimm TPM// Dutch & Dutch 8C

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#17
Having found Air massively frustrating and annoying so far, I've realised that was nothing compared to highres playback. Most of my library was 44.1, and now I've added a few more highres files Air is practically useless. A joke really. I can barely get through a whole track before the crackles start and the Air app has to be quit and restarted.

How Devialet aren't massively embarrassed about this is beyond me. And how they continue to advertise it is simply unbelievable. Sorry those that defend it, but it simply doesn't work.

As soon as an iOS remote comes out for roon, I'll abandon and go USB via that route. My dream is they integrate Qobuz too, in which case I need never look at Air again. So much for the idea of moving all the other hifi gear out of the lounge and having a single sleek box connected only by Ethernet.

As a side note I've also gone right off Audirvana, which was previously my player of choice before exploring other things that played more friendly with Air (time well spent). To my ears, it creates an increasesed clarity by emphasising treble and reducing bass. Subtle but having used it for a while and historically felt the bass in my system lacking, I now put a lot of that down to Audirvana. Straight iTunes and Air sound more natural and less 'shrill'. I also has a few weird things where Audirvana worked, but then after using air nothing would come through the USB. Still now I'm not sure what fixed it - seems to take several reboots, deselecting the output, and messing about with the midi setup. Then it pops back to life again. I guess it does things Air doesn't like and vice-versa.

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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#18
Photo 
"Aggregated together" - what do you mean ? If using only one Mac you need to switch between the networks or do you mean you´re using only one network-name for all networks ?
[/quote]

I have one airport extreme connected to my router internet provider, in the same room I have old airport express for my printer and a new airport express connected to my Devialet with a ethernet cable. All 3 airport units are connected to each other so I don't have to switch around to access wrestles printer or the Devialet.
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#19
(05-Aug-2015, 09:13)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Having found Air massively frustrating and annoying so far, I've realised that was nothing compared to highres playback. Most of my library was 44.1, and now I've added a few more highres files Air is practically useless. A joke really. I can barely get through a whole track before the crackles start and the Air app has to be quit and restarted.

How Devialet aren't massively embarrassed about this is beyond me. And how they continue to advertise it is simply unbelievable. Sorry those that defend it, but it simply doesn't work.

As soon as an iOS remote comes out for roon, I'll abandon and go USB via that route. My dream is they integrate Qobuz too, in which case I need never look at Air again. So much for the idea of moving all the other hifi gear out of the lounge and having a single sleek box connected only by Ethernet.

As a side note I've also gone right off Audirvana, which was previously my player of choice before exploring other things that played more friendly with Air (time well spent). To my ears, it creates an increasesed clarity by emphasising treble and reducing bass. Subtle but having used it for a while and historically felt the bass in my system lacking, I now put a lot of that down to Audirvana. Straight iTunes and Air sound more natural and less 'shrill'. I also has a few weird things where Audirvana worked, but then after using air nothing would come through the USB. Still now I'm not sure what fixed it - seems to take several reboots, deselecting the output, and messing about with the midi setup. Then it pops back to life again. I guess it does things Air doesn't like and vice-versa.

Sorry you are having problems with Air. I am not sure how robust an Air, or any other wireless streaming music system, network needs to be for 24/192 streaming.
Have you done much experimenting with your network?
I and most other users have trouble free Air connections, but I had to make sure I had a good robust network before I did.

Getting rid of Android devices (which have lots of network activity without asking as a default), changing my router to use a fixed channel no other network round here is using and having a good quality wifi access point with strong signal all helped.

I can no longer use Air completely wirelessly since the signal strength at the Devialet is suddenly too low to register (I suspect maybe a fault has developed) but Air-ETH works flawlessly on all my files up to 24/192 now, and has done for 3 years or so.

OTOH I know one person who has done everything imaginable to have a robust network, including the things that worked for me, and still has problems.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#20
(10-Aug-2015, 10:46)f1eng Wrote:
(05-Aug-2015, 09:13)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Having found Air massively frustrating and annoying so far, I've realised that was nothing compared to highres playback. Most of my library was 44.1, and now I've added a few more highres files Air is practically useless. A joke really. I can barely get through a whole track before the crackles start and the Air app has to be quit and restarted.

How Devialet aren't massively embarrassed about this is beyond me. And how they continue to advertise it is simply unbelievable. Sorry those that defend it, but it simply doesn't work.

As soon as an iOS remote comes out for roon, I'll abandon and go USB via that route. My dream is they integrate Qobuz too, in which case I need never look at Air again. So much for the idea of moving all the other hifi gear out of the lounge and having a single sleek box connected only by Ethernet.

As a side note I've also gone right off Audirvana, which was previously my player of choice before exploring other things that played more friendly with Air (time well spent). To my ears, it creates an increasesed clarity by emphasising treble and reducing bass. Subtle but having used it for a while and historically felt the bass in my system lacking, I now put a lot of that down to Audirvana. Straight iTunes and Air sound more natural and less 'shrill'. I also has a few weird things where Audirvana worked, but then after using air nothing would come through the USB. Still now I'm not sure what fixed it - seems to take several reboots, deselecting the output, and messing about with the midi setup. Then it pops back to life again. I guess it does things Air doesn't like and vice-versa.

Sorry you are having problems with Air. I am not sure how robust an Air, or any other wireless streaming music system, network needs to be for 24/192 streaming.
Have you done much experimenting with your network?
I and most other users have trouble free Air connections, but I had to make sure I had a good robust network before I did.

Getting rid of Android devices (which have lots of network activity without asking as a default), changing my router to use a fixed channel no other network round here is using and having a good quality wifi access point with strong signal all helped.

I can no longer use Air completely wirelessly since the signal strength at the Devialet is suddenly too low to register (I suspect maybe a fault has developed) but Air-ETH works flawlessly on all my files up to 24/192 now, and has done for 3 years or so.

OTOH I know one person who has done everything imaginable to have a robust network, including the things that worked for me, and still has problems.

Thanks f1eng.
I've never tried wifi tbh. All of my issues are Air Ethernet. Netgear gigabit switch, cat5e structured cabling throughout the house, very little traffic on the switch, dedicated Mac mini music server with only audio playback duties. Never had a network glitch on anything else in the 2 years I've lived here (I had the networking installed). Same issue with my replacement unit (previous had other issues).

44.1 stuff will break it at some point - might be minutes, hours, or days.
24/192 within a track.

I'm not convinced most other users have trouble-free connections from what I've read here and elsewhere, but I do accept it works for some.

I just don't have the patience to spend anymore time on it really - trouble shooting something like that's not what I bought a D200 for.

USB isn't as good. But at least I can just listen.
I don't believe Devialet will ever fix this tbh. They seem to have all their energy focussed elsewhere, although that energy may well bring an alternative like dialogue. But I'd never trust a Devialet streaming product now - there are already lots of good options around, and it's a hotbed of activity, so there will be plenty Of viable alternatives going forwards.

I guess what annoys me the most, is I just didn't expect to have to buy something additional to 'appease' the Devialet in my setup, I thought I could stream to it over my network and move everything out of the living room. That was the whole point. But since that's not the reality, as soon as I can afford to I'll get a streamers for it. Unless someone takes me up on the D200 sale, in which case I'll change direction!

My main problem is I love the look of it, and so does my wife who has really bought into its aesthetics, so it's a tricky situation...... And in fact if I hadn't have had these issues I would have considered Phantom as that appeals too - but I just don't think Devialet have got their act together on the software side, which is worrying On cutting edge products that are totally reliant on it.

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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