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Phantom 1.4.1.12 measurements
#21
alandbush, thank you for taking the time to conduct these tests and share the results.

I am interested to do the same for my setup to better understand how my room is interacting. In my case, I severely lose bass response below 50hz which I find odd because my previous speakers were fine in this area (Primare amp + NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers with NHT SW1P 8" sub). I'm simply not experiencing the prodigious bass output that the Phantoms are well known for unless I crank the system above 70. Anything lower seems to be anemic in the bass area. The phantoms are placed in the exact same spot as my other speakers using the same stands.

I've not used REW, but just downloaded it. I am in process of ordering the miniDSP UMIK-1 as well.

If I understand correctly, you are playing sweeps from your local library via Spark to the Phantoms while measuring via REW?
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#22
(03-Feb-2016, 02:04)kameraguy Wrote: alandbush, thank you for taking the time to conduct these tests and share the results.

I am interested to do the same for my setup to better understand how my room is interacting. In my case, I severely lose bass response below 50hz which I find odd because my previous speakers were fine in this area (Primare amp + NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers with NHT SW1P 8" sub). I'm simply not experiencing the prodigious bass output that the Phantoms are well known for unless I crank the system above 70. Anything lower seems to be anemic in the bass area. The phantoms are placed in the exact same spot as my other speakers using the same stands.

I've not used REW, but just downloaded it. I am in process of ordering the miniDSP UMIK-1 as well.

If I understand correctly, you are playing sweeps from your local library via Spark to the Phantoms while measuring via REW?

 Re. your loss of bass below 50hz.
 Is your "night mode" turned on by chance?  that would do it.
 just a thought..
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#23
(03-Feb-2016, 02:04)kameraguy Wrote: If I understand correctly, you are playing sweeps from your local library via Spark to the Phantoms while measuring via REW?

To my knowledge, REW does not contain a folder of measurement tone/sweep etc. files that can be accessed by other applications.  Instead, I assume that it generates these in real time and which are then sent through the PC output 'speaker'.  In my case, that is out via the headphone socket into a cheap ADC via toslink into a Phantom.
The REW application has comprehensive help which should prevent you running before you can walk.
Home Theater Shack has further help, if needed, particularly in the interpretation of the various output results.
Take it step by step and it should be rewarding but be prepared for the time commitment.  Enjoy.
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#24
What are the dimensions of the room this was measured in? I too measured my Phantoms with REW a while back, and I notice that you don't have the gigantic suck-out around 40Hz like I do (which I'm guessing is a 'null'). My room is 5.3 x 4.3 meters.
JRiver v25 (Windows) >> 220Pro/CI >> PMC Twenty5.23 + twin KEF KC62 subs. One White Phantom.
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#25
The room dimensions determine the frequencies of peaks and troughs.
How much you hear of them depends on where the speakers are in the room (how much they are excited) and where you are sitting (whether you are near an anti-node or a node of the mode in question).
If your phantoms are not in the same place as your other speakers and/or your seat has moved, the bass will have changed.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#26
(03-Feb-2016, 04:09)phantomaussie Wrote:
(03-Feb-2016, 02:04)kameraguy Wrote: alandbush, thank you for taking the time to conduct these tests and share the results.

I am interested to do the same for my setup to better understand how my room is interacting. In my case, I severely lose bass response below 50hz which I find odd because my previous speakers were fine in this area (Primare amp + NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers with NHT SW1P 8" sub). I'm simply not experiencing the prodigious bass output that the Phantoms are well known for unless I crank the system above 70. Anything lower seems to be anemic in the bass area. The phantoms are placed in the exact same spot as my other speakers using the same stands.

I've not used REW, but just downloaded it. I am in process of ordering the miniDSP UMIK-1 as well.

If I understand correctly, you are playing sweeps from your local library via Spark to the Phantoms while measuring via REW?

 Re. your loss of bass below 50hz.
 Is your "night mode" turned on by chance?  that would do it.
 just a thought..

Thanks, Night mode is disabled.

I am using the speakers in the exact same stands/placement as my previous speakers. Only difference is the use of a subwoofer which was positioned in the middle of my previous setup. Because the Phantoms are capable of lower bass levels than my sub, I figured they would provide even larger amounts.

However it seems I am definitely getting Bass null below 50hz. It seems the way the Phantoms generate bass seems to be cancelling those frequencies when interacting with my room. I'll see if I can try a different room and verify if bass response is better.
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#27
(04-Feb-2016, 21:36)kameraguy Wrote: However it seems I am definitely getting Bass null below 50hz. It seems the way the Phantoms generate bass seems to be cancelling those frequencies when interacting with my room. I'll see if I can try a different room and verify if bass response is better.

If it's a nice day, why not take it out into the garden?  No room nodes there.....  
(This is actually not a crazy as it might sound, depending on what your garden is like, of course)
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#28
(03-Feb-2016, 14:04)JohnnySix Wrote: What are the dimensions of the room this was measured in? I too measured my Phantoms with REW a while back, and I notice that you don't have the gigantic suck-out around 40Hz like I do (which I'm guessing is a 'null'). My room is 5.3 x 4.3 meters.

I will concur with F1ENG regarding the placement of speakers in relation to the room boundaries, listening position etc. etc.
REW has a nice Room simulator included, which is fun to play with, and shows the effects on the frequency range of different speaker positions and/or listening positions.

For what it's worth my room is roughly 5m x 6m, but it contains a large bay window behind the listening position. So, although I am close to the back wall, I am at least a metre from the window. To complicate things further, the speakers are positioned in one half of a living/dining room, i.e. two rooms separated/joined (?) by a 3m archway.
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#29
Having just browsed across your original post, I noticed you said

"A UMIK-1 mic, with its’ 90 degree calibration file, was used pointed directly at a single Phantom at a distance of 30cms."

My understanding was that 0 degrees meant pointing at the speakers (horizontal). I thought 90 degrees was for the mike pointing UP. Have I been measuring with wrong cal file all this time ?!?
JRiver v25 (Windows) >> 220Pro/CI >> PMC Twenty5.23 + twin KEF KC62 subs. One White Phantom.
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#30
(05-Feb-2016, 16:52)JohnnySix Wrote: Having just browsed across your original post, I noticed you said

"A UMIK-1 mic, with its’ 90 degree calibration file, was used pointed directly at a single Phantom at a distance of 30cms."

My understanding was that 0 degrees meant pointing at the speakers (horizontal). I thought 90 degrees was for the mike pointing UP. Have I been measuring with wrong cal file all this time ?!?

An excellent spot and please accept my apologies for the confusion.  Blush
Your understanding is correct and my only excuse is that I was comparing different firmwares, rather than attempting to provide an accurate FR measurement of the speaker.

You've got me wondering now just how different the results would be between the calibration files.

Idea  So, if the latest firmware release sparks (no pun intended) comments about sound quality changes, I may be tempted to have another go at a comparison measurement.
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