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Electrostatics
#1
Heard my first ever pair of electrostatics this weekend (Martin Logan Ethos).

What can I say, when they got bought into the room, I thought they looked really ugly, and had very low expectations.

The sound that came out of them was like nothing I'd heard, and even though it was a short session, I put them right up there for some more listening. I even started wondering if there was any way I could live with them in my lounge.

Not sure of it was just the new presentation, and maybe that would becoming a bit annoying after a time, or whether its the way sound should be…..

There's still so much more on my 'to try' list that its going to be impossible to get through them at dealers, let alone narrow a few down for my home sessions.

I see a few Devialet owners have electrostatics so there must be some synergy.

I hear they're a bit tricky to place - which if true rules them out as I'm so restricted. But they're definitely on the radar.
I still don't think they look nice though - hand them to some Italians or British minimalist designers for goodness sake - they could be made to look beautiful I'm sure.

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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#2
This reminds me of my first experience hearing Martin Logans and then quite a few years later Maggies. Totally different sound, totally different way of hearing music.
Roon ROCK on Intel NUC6i5SYH/Ethernet | VPI Avenger | Devialet 440 Pro CI | Vivid Audio Giya G3 | Auralic Aires Mini | Synology 1812+ NAS
SXSW, US
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#3
The purity and speed of good electrostatics is intoxicating. I've never had a room big enough for big Maggies or Sanders. I did have a pair of Stax electrostatic headphones I loved. I would love to hear the Muraudio omni electrostatics some day. http://muraudio.com
SYSTEM 1:Grimm MU-1 running Roon Server & Ready//Grimm TPM//GRIMM LS1be
SYSTEM 2: Antipodes DX Roon Server// MiniDSP// Grimm TPM// Dutch & Dutch 8C

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#4
In love with Magnepan speakers from the first second I've heard them at a friends place.
Transparancy, soundstage and resolution are magical.
The Devialet just adds to that. Perfect match for me.
And I really love the looks as well. But I have a very minimalistic styled house.
So the two large monoliths make perfect sense.
Devialet Expert 200 (FW 7.1.3) / Magnepan 1.7i / Rel T5 / Foobar (WASAPI event 24bit) / AIR 3.0.1 public beta (best Air 3.x.x SQ by far)
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#5
I ran electrostatics (Quad 2905s - similar to the 2912s) with my D-Premiers for a while - just brilliant but they do dominate the room. After 30 years of Quads (latest price £8k) I switched to Magico Q1s (£26k) which are pretty much their equal.

As is documented elsewhere, the electrostatic speed, transparency and soundstage (in the right room) are stunning.
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#6
I ran panel loudspeakers for many years (Apogee Divas)
All speakers are very influenced by the room they are in, and where in the room they are positioned. The apogees had a really deep stereo image but I suspect that had a lot to do with the sound coming from their back bouncing of the wall and mixing with the direct sound.
I loved them to bits bit they were too big for a new room and had to go.
I am not sure they were all that accurate, but they were lovely sounding.
I have not tried electrostatic speakers at home but have listened to and enjoyed many different ones at demos and friends houses. I own both Stax and King Sound electrostatic headphones which I like a lot, but of course the potential for considerable listening room interaction isn't there with headphones.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#7
I have been sold on the electrostatic sound for a few years now, as mentioned "speed, transparency and soundstage" are superb (IMHO). I had ML Arius i before moving to the Ethos which has increased clarity, soundstage (especially vertically) and far more bass. Aesthetics are a very personal thing, the Aerius had a solid Oak trim which I liked (very "woody" house) and at first I struggled with the Ethos looks but the visual transparency of the panels helps a lot.

Re placement I only have a small listening room so have few options but was lucky enough to have Pedro from Absolute Sounds set the speakers up and they sound great, 18 inches from the wall to the back of the bass cabinets and 6 feet 6 inches apart.  

Originally the D170 clipped (red light on display) on loud rock music but since the D200 upgrade I have not noticed this happening.
Chord Blu > D200 > Martin Logan Ethos : Saddleworth, England
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#8
About electrostatics:

1. I have been sold on the electrostatic sound since 1981 (My first Quad ESL, the ESL57). The Martin Logan speakers are above 375 Hz electrostatics and below that (half of the hearable sound = in the middle of a piano keyboard) they have a (slow=distorted) dynamic subwoofer. That's why SAM does not function with electrostatic speakers and with Martin Logan's it can. (see 2). Suggestion: try full range electrostatics; it is another cup of tea;

2. Even many readers on this devialet chat side and dealers don't know why full range electrostatics will never get SAMmed. SAM only functions below a couple of hundred Hz and compensates for the problems an alectrostatic does not have. A dynamic loudspeaker is - compared to a full range electrostatic - so heavy and therefore so slow in the reaction to the sound that distortion figures like an electrostatic are not possible. In other words: full range electrostatics simply don't need SAM. When testing a full range electrostatic speaker like a Quad ESL 2912 or 2812 think of the famous waterfall graphics: the delay in which the speakers moves and stops is incredible more absent compared to dynamic speakers. Our ears are very sensitive to such kind of distortion;

3. I have a lovely wife: behind our ESL's the walls of the little room (320 cm x 650 cm) are plastered with sound-absorbing material. Very very long ago my child-room was plastered with egg-cartons, happily so bad isn't the situation anymore. Although.....

4. I own 3 sub-woofers: Rel studio I, Rel Stentor II, Rel stadium II. In my experience only the Studio (same price as a Devialet 200 and 93 kg) and the Stentor (€ 4.000 and 48 kg) are capable of reaching the necessary quality (not quantity) below 40 Hz; the Studio till 9 Hz -3 dB!). Because of the space I combine my Quads with the Stentor II and it sounds great. Of course the Devialet compensates for the distances between the speakers in milliseconds (30millisec per cm; the difference between the speed of sound and the speed of light as everybody knows).
By the way: you can combine such large subs with small rooms; most people think you need space for the organ sound. Nonsense; I own large and small and the Studio in a small room like mentioned sounds realy great. Okay, in the living room of 100m2 it sounds superb, but great is better then every sound I heard in Munich......

5. Quad 2905 similar as 2912...? Yes and no.
No: I own(ed) both of them and every Quad is really a step forward. The latest models (now I listen most to 2812) are very more accurate and especially the Devialet amplifiers can let you hear such differences. It's a marvel. I am on the Devialet website the only one which ownes the ESL 2812 worlwide and in fact you cannot understand that. My electrical TV picture of 310 cm wide is hanging above the Quads and therefore the 2912 were no option in that room/ house.
The newest Quads can play with the Devialet amplifier so loud, it never/ never shuts down anymore....In the old day's the ESL 989 on MarkLevinson shutted it down several times during a James Bond movie. The Dev is reading 60 degrees celcius, oké..... I am sure the 400 combination will bring some more compared with the 200 model. A Quad electrostatic eats power! I will try next year.
Yes: compared to the difference in sound between a dynamic speaker and an electrostatic; the difference between a 2905 and a 2912 is in that respect very small

6. I want to listen to electrostatic sound loud late at night in the middle of a town. So my idea was: buy 2 Stax headphones and how can I get the Devialet sound into that? Bought the staxes SR507 and a Woo audio converter and 16 (!) WBT nextgen plugs (more expensive then the WooWee) and voila! I was afraid of the switch into the loudspeaker cable, but it sounds great this way. The sound of the Quads didn't decline; I cannot hear the difference. Use of contact liquid vandenHul was usefull again!
1: Atelier d'Or no.75 (1.5m. AQ RCA-XLR), Heart 2812 QuadESL.nl, Kimber 8TC, WBT, Rel StentorII, Oppo105D (surround), Vodafone Next, Quad 303.2(!Quadrepair.nl), Kef RDM1, BenQW4000i, SBooster (3x), IfiX 3x, 125 inch, Stax 507 (2x) on Stax SRM-1S, SRM D-50, all on Iso-Ac. Gaia1, 2 and 3, Kemp Isolator source and power-, Kemp QA/ SNS plugs (6x), Furutech & ALAC maincables, AQ Blizzard, Van den Hul Mainstream, Optical 8k cables, Clearaudio (Synchro+Champion2+TT3 tangential+CM Bearing+Outer Limit+StradivariV2, 530uV, 200 ohms), NUC11 i7, Samsung-980Pro, -A8, -S24Ultra, Roon Life, Netgear 108, AQ Cinnamon all, Live cable USB, AQ jitterbug 5x, WB 18TB 2x

2: 220Pro, Kef R3, Rel Studio, Oppo103EU (surround), Quad 707(mod), Kef RDM2, all on Iso Acoustics 200, Gaia 3 & 1, LG Oled55, Furutech wall outlets(3x), AQ NRG-Z3 (2m., 5x), Kemp powerstrips, Audiotool filters, Oppo HA2+PM3 + AQ cinnamon cables

1900 recorded LP's 24/192, 850 DSD 5.1 SACD (via Oppo), 4800 ripped CD's, Qubuz

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#9
Quad ESL-2805s used for this D200 review:

http://www.stereotimes.com/post/devialet-200/
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#10
(08-Dec-2015, 14:29)Peter van der Laarse Wrote: About electrostatics:

2. Even many readers on this devialet chat side and dealers don't know why full range electrostatics will never get SAMmed. SAM only functions below a couple of hundred Hz and compensates for the problems an alectrostatic does not have. A dynamic loudspeaker is - compared to a full range electrostatic - so heavy and therefore so slow in the reaction to the sound that distortion figures like an electrostatic are not possible. In other words: full range electrostatics simply don't need SAM. When testing a full range electrostatic speaker like a Quad ESL 2912 or 2812 think of the famous waterfall graphics: the delay in which the speakers moves and stops is incredible more absent compared to dynamic speakers. Our ears are very sensitive to such kind of distortion;

Great info, Peter.

Found simular info on the Devialet site:
What are the speakers that cannot be SAMmed?

Does this include Magnetostatic panels like my Magenepan 1.7i's as well?
I guess so, but just want to make sure.
That saves me the trouble of nagging my dealer who promised my speakers would be SAM-ed... Wink

Thanks!
Devialet Expert 200 (FW 7.1.3) / Magnepan 1.7i / Rel T5 / Foobar (WASAPI event 24bit) / AIR 3.0.1 public beta (best Air 3.x.x SQ by far)
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