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Cables for Devialet D200
#31
(02-Feb-2016, 23:37)Pim van Vliet Wrote: Well, that failed... Dodgy

No, our posts crossed. 

As it happens, I agree with your post #28. But I do also think that a politely sceptical voice needs to be heard.

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
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#32
This thread has got hijacked a little but it is a subject which fascinates me.
In my past purchases I have always just went along with the dealers recommendations. I did this as my knowledge in this area is very poor. Even with the recent Melco purchase I got a £190 USB cable. Ok that's not a huge amount of cash, but it is if a £20 will do the same job.
When I get my new speakers I intend to buy a cheap USB cable and see if I can hear the difference. For now though I am do using on the new speakers
I get the scientific argument but why do so many people hear a difference or believe they hear a difference if there is no way it can be because of the cables.
I also think whether it's true or not if people think they can hear a difference then it's worth it for them. It's their cash so that's up to them.

In time I would like to experiment , but you can't borrow cables so that's an expensive business.

Anyway the original poster needs some help from people who know a lot more than me
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#33
A scientific attitude is : there is no study showing difference between cable, then i can't afirm there is a difference or not. There is no proof in a way or In another.
Then, if you haven't any study, how can you say :
"There are no instances of people being able to distinguish between different power cables in blind tests. That tells you everything you need to know. "
Well interesting subject
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#34
For optical cable, I managed to "squeeze" 24/192 music from my Bluesound Node to Le200 via a cheap toslink cable. Using a more expensive Audioquest Forest toslink cable, on the othe hand, can only transmit up to 24/96 bitrates. I'm not sure what conclusion can I come to this.
Before: Le200, KEF LS50, AQ Type4, NUC 5i5RYH/8GB/128GB M.2SSD, Roon, Win8.1/AIR2.1.3/RoonBridge, MM/AIR3/RoonBridge, QNAP TS-212P 5TB NAS, AQ NRG-X3

Now: KEF LS50W, NUC5i5RYH/8GB/128GB M.2SSD, Roon, QNAP TS-212P 5TB NAS,iFi iSilencer3.0+DC iPurifier+iPurifier2, Sonos ZP80+SPDIF iPurifier


Location: Cyberjaya, Malaysia
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#35
(03-Feb-2016, 00:22)Bob58 Wrote: A scientific attitude is : there is no study showing difference between cable, then i can't afirm there is a difference or not. There is no proof in a way or In another.
Then, if you haven't any study, how can you say :
"There are no instances of people being able to distinguish between different power cables in blind tests. That tells you everything you need to know. "
Well interesting subject

I am very sorry but I believe that is inaccurate.  The scientific argument is to accept the null hypothesis in all study design.  

So, for example, the null hypothesis in a (simple) double blind randomized controlled trial of speaker cables would be:

"There is no difference in audio quality between speaker cable A and speaker cable B."

The alternative hypothesis would be:

"There is a difference between speaker cable A and speaker cable B."

The scientific burden of proof is on proving the alternative hypothesis because, until that is done, the null hypothesis is assumed to be correct.  If you cannot prove that the participants in the study are able to definitively identify one cable is superior to the other with a p value of less than 0.05 (ie less than a 5% probability that the observed result was due to chance), then you MUST accept the null hypothesis.  You don't conclude that you can't tell if it's better or not, you conclude that there is NO difference until proven otherwise.  This is basic scientific study methodology.

Similarly, if there is no study showing a difference between cables as you say, then the scientific "presumption" is that there is no difference.  This can only be refuted through testing demonstrating that there is, in fact, a difference.
QNAP TS-453 > ROON on Intel NUC 5i5RYK running Win10 > AIR ethernet to D200 via router > Focal Sopra No 2
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#36
(29-Jan-2016, 14:16)Stephen_V Wrote: Hi again everyone!

I have a Devialet coming to me!  I have heard that the cables make a pretty significant difference with the Devialet.  I have a Transparent Premium USB. Any recommendations for a power cable?  Does the optical cable make much a difference? As long as the fibers are clean I would be surprised if that would make a difference. 

Best regards,
Stephen

Pim, thanks for trying to get us back on track.

Stephen, I'm new to the Devialet as well so don't yet have experience with different power cords, but I have tried different optical cables so can give you my opinion on that question of yours. I've also tried USB cables, but not a Transparent so can't compare anything to your USB cable. In short, optical cables do make an audible difference to me (and my friends) in my system. The difference isn't as big as USB cables, and USB sounds better than optical in my system.

I had a generic optical cable and when I saw a Monster Cable for 99¢ I picked it up to have one in my laptop bag. I was shocked by how much better it sounded, which led me to do a little research and buy a Lifatec Silflex when I found a long one at a huge discount (I was hoping to use the length for a Phantom). The Lifatec sounds far better than the Monster when connecting my Mac Mini to my Devialet 400. That's just in my system though, and what you're connecting to both ends of the optical cable will matter.

Optical cables need to work in synergy with the particular optical transceiver to which they're connected. From what I understand the biggest difference between optical cables is the material (glass or plastic), number of fibers, and material quality (fiber specs., end polish, etc.). An imprecise optical transceiver may work best with a single big plastic fiber like the Monster, while a better transceiver may benefit from a cable composed of many high-quality glass fibers with well-polished ends. The Lifatec is made of 470 glass strands with a 1-micron polish on the ends. For comparison the AudioQuest Diamond is made of 280 glass strands with an unspecified "precision polish" and further down their line uses fewer fibers and eventually drops from glasses to plastics. I haven't learned what optical transceiver is in the Devialet, but it seems good enough to take advantage of a multi-fiber glass cable so I suggest trying one of those. Again, when connecting my Mac Mini to my D400 (mini optical to Toslink) I prefer the Lifatec to the Monster and the Monster to a generic cable, and not by an insignificant amount in each case. However, you may hear something different in your system and as always if you can borrow a few cables of various types from your dealer then you can hear for yourself whether it makes any difference to you in your system. I enjoy the science so like to learn about the technical aspects of these things, but in the end only your ears can make the final judgement so I offer my experience only as one data point for you.

I hope that helps answer your question, Stephen, if you're still reading this thread.
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#37
In my system the wireworld Supernova6 optical cable is much better than a 'basic quality' USB cable between Mac Mini and 250.

By better I mean, more relaxed, more spacious, clearer and a deeper soundstage. Its on par with streaming via the Moon and an AQ coffee AES.

I've not tried an audiophile USB as I'm happy with the optical.
Devialet 250 FW 9.0.1 SOLD
Replaced with Naim NSC222 and NAP250 NC

Atohm GT SE1, REL stereo Subwoofers. Atacama stands filled with atabites. Granite speaker stand plinths. Mogami speaker cables, Music Works heavy duty power cable.
Quadraspire 'toilet seat' acrylic rack
Sources:
1. Mac Mini 2021 M1
- Qobuz/Audirvana Studio/ Audirvana app on iPad (Via Mac mini)
2. Vertere DG-1 with Magneto upgraded to fine line stylus

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#38
My recommendation would be to use the cable which come with the Devialet and enjoy the music.

There are 2 types of people who believe cables make a difference IME, the first are dealers, cables must be the highest margin item they sell, the second are enthusiasts who have bought cables which cost >£100.

There is no technical reason why any properly engineered cables would sound different to each other. None.

I used to think I heard differences in cables during persuasive demos but I grew out of it about 20 years ago after doing evaluations on my own, with nobody to egg me on, dealer or friend.
The only cables which sounded different had filter boxes on them. All the others, from the cable in the box to very expensive ones (I was gullible and well-off once) sounded the same.

People hearing no difference not having a resolving enough system or not good enough ears is just marketing BS or self justification of gullibility IME.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#39
(03-Feb-2016, 04:37)deviousalet Wrote:
(29-Jan-2016, 14:16)Stephen_V Wrote: Hi again everyone!

I have a Devialet coming to me!  I have heard that the cables make a pretty significant difference with the Devialet.  I have a Transparent Premium USB. Any recommendations for a power cable?  Does the optical cable make much a difference? As long as the fibers are clean I would be surprised if that would make a difference. 

Best regards,
Stephen

Pim, thanks for trying to get us back on track.

Stephen, I'm new to the Devialet as well so don't yet have experience with different power cords, but I have tried different optical cables so can give you my opinion on that question of yours. I've also tried USB cables, but not a Transparent so can't compare anything to your USB cable. In short, optical cables do make an audible difference to me (and my friends) in my system. The difference isn't as big as USB cables, and USB sounds better than optical in my system.

I had a generic optical cable and when I saw a Monster Cable for 99¢ I picked it up to have one in my laptop bag. I was shocked by how much better it sounded, which led me to do a little research and buy a Lifatec Silflex when I found a long one at a huge discount (I was hoping to use the length for a Phantom). The Lifatec sounds far better than the Monster when connecting my Mac Mini to my Devialet 400. That's just in my system though, and what you're connecting to both ends of the optical cable will matter.

Optical cables need to work in synergy with the particular optical transceiver to which they're connected. From what I understand the biggest difference between optical cables is the material (glass or plastic), number of fibers, and material quality (fiber specs., end polish, etc.). An imprecise optical transceiver may work best with a single big plastic fiber like the Monster, while a better transceiver may benefit from a cable composed of many high-quality glass fibers with well-polished ends. The Lifatec is made of 470 glass strands with a 1-micron polish on the ends. For comparison the AudioQuest Diamond is made of 280 glass strands with an unspecified "precision polish" and further down their line uses fewer fibers and eventually drops from glasses to plastics. I haven't learned what optical transceiver is in the Devialet, but it seems good enough to take advantage of a multi-fiber glass cable so I suggest trying one of those. Again, when connecting my Mac Mini to my D400 (mini optical to Toslink) I prefer the Lifatec to the Monster and the Monster to a generic cable, and not by an insignificant amount in each case. However, you may hear something different in your system and as always if you can borrow a few cables of various types from your dealer then you can hear for yourself whether it makes any difference to you in your system. I enjoy the science so like to learn about the technical aspects of these things, but in the end only your ears can make the final judgement so I offer my experience only as one data point for you.

I hope that helps answer your question, Stephen, if you're still reading this thread.

An optical cable either does deliver a signal from one end to the other or it does not. The consructional details may influence whether the cable is good enough to stream 24/192 or won't go over 24/96, but if the signal is there there is absolutely no mechanism, other than the placebo effect which could influence the SQ.
Having said that the placebo effect is very real so if one is susceptible to it the SQ difference will be very real in your head even if it isn't there physically, so is probably worth it for any cable, digital analogue or power.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#40
(03-Feb-2016, 01:10)hk6230 Wrote: For optical cable, I managed to "squeeze" 24/192 music from my Bluesound Node to Le200 via a cheap toslink cable. Using a more expensive Audioquest Forest toslink cable, on the othe hand, can only transmit up to 24/96 bitrates. I'm not sure what conclusion can I come to this.

That means your cheap cable is better and that proves there's a difference in cables. In this case possibly because the more expensive cable isn't made to spec but to 'what can we come up with that stands out in advertising that sells these things'
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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