Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
I'm coming 'off the fence'
#21
You have me doubting it now. I think it was on audioshark, and it was either the curious USB or the total DAC USB. Anyway it's irrelevant and I think you have a good reason why you are not sharing it
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Reply
#22
(03-Feb-2016, 20:12)Womaz Wrote: You have me doubting it now. I think it was on audioshark, and it was either the curious USB or the total DAC USB. Anyway it's irrelevant and I think you have a good reason why you are not sharing it

He recommends Light Harmonic Light Speed USB in his quarter notes V4 Issue 3;

Light Harmonic Light Speed USB cable
This was an unexpected outcome, to be sure. I have been quite happy with my Transparent Audio USB cable. Never saw the need to change – music flowed beautifully. Why fix it if it ain’t broke?
When the folks at Light Harmonic offered to send me a sample (I didn’t ask – they contacted me), I said OK. Honestly speaking, I wasn’t exactly excited. But hey, I promised to give it a listen, so I did…
Lo & behold, it was better in every way. However, I have only had the original USB cable from Transparent. Their upper level models are even better, I am quite certain. I simply have not heard them.
The split USB LH Lightspeed cable is considerably more expensive. I was never a big believer in expensive USB cable differences. But anyone can hear this. It’s not subtle. For all that I know, my MBP Retina/Ayre QB-9 interface especially benefits from it.
If you can arrange a home trial, I highly recommend that you give the LH a try, and if that is more than you can spend, try one of more of the Transparent models.
http://www.lightharmonic.com/lightspeed.html
http://store.transparentcable.com/digital-audio-cables/
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
Reply
#23
I just looked back at the other forum and he replaced the light speed USB with the curious cable , the post was from December 2015 . He said he sent it out to his get better sound clients in his quarterly newsletter.
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Reply
#24
Yep. Here it is in his latest quarter notes. I didn't notice at first and I do read his quarter notes. So it looks like he's gone from Light Harmonics to Curious with a REGEN in between... that's double the controversy...

Curious cable – including 200MM Curious REGEN jumper

I tried out the Curious USB cable that everyone has been discussing. I found that it continued along the path of less mechanical sound and more musical involvement. While it isn’t exactly cheap, it handily outperformed the far more expensive USB cable that I had been using, in all of the ways that I value musically. I also picked up the special 200mm cable for the REGEN that I mentioned in the last QNs to replace the hard adaptor supplied by Uptone Audio. Another nice improvement! You can pick one up yourself at http://www.curiouscables.com.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
Reply
#25
(03-Feb-2016, 22:46)Pim van Vliet Wrote: Yep. Here it is in his latest quarter notes. I didn't notice at first and I do read his quarter notes. So it looks like he's gone from Light Harmonics to Curious with a REGEN in between... that's double the controversy...

Curious cable – including 200MM Curious REGEN jumper

I tried out the Curious USB cable that everyone has been discussing. I found that it continued along the path of less mechanical sound and more musical involvement. While it isn’t exactly cheap, it handily outperformed the far more expensive USB cable that I had been using, in all of the ways that I value musically. I also picked up the special 200mm cable for the REGEN that I mentioned in the last QNs to replace the hard adaptor supplied by Uptone Audio. Another nice improvement! You can pick one up yourself at http://www.curiouscables.com.

He is the ultimate tweaker :-)
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Reply
#26
(03-Feb-2016, 19:36)Antoine Wrote: To those blaming the placebo effect or some cognitive bias, when I was a "beginner" in this hobby I couldn't hear/detect differences between cables (or certain other things like power treatment devices) while others often could. I have always been honest about that.

Nowadays, and many years later, I can often detect differences, even subtle ones between cables. Often these differences aren't clear instantaneous, it could take days before I am sure of the differences and can also use words to describe these or the impact they have on emotional impact from the music. One of the reasons DBT/ABX tests won't work for me, unless the differences are "night and day" of course.

I'd like to think that I not only have improved my system and listening room but also have trained and improved my listening skills and perhaps even my hearing (the processing part happening in the brain). Perhaps a bit like someone who becomes blind will improve his listening skills/hearing (be it though enhanced focus or whatever mechanism at play there) I can't think of any valid reasons why I would have suddenly "trained" my susceptibility to the placebo effect, not even unconscious reasons.

The reason why quick switching tests are preferred is that the duration of echoic memory is around 3-4 seconds (or possibly up to a maximum of 20 seconds if there are no distractions). Quick switching tests are therefore much more accurate than listening tests over longer durations.

You're not alone in finding longer listening sessions more congenial: I do too, and I find quick switching quite tiring. But even so it is much more accurate.

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
Reply
#27
(04-Feb-2016, 00:08)Jwg1749 Wrote:
(03-Feb-2016, 19:36)Antoine Wrote: To those blaming the placebo effect or some cognitive bias, when I was a "beginner" in this hobby I couldn't hear/detect differences between cables (or certain other things like power treatment devices) while others often could. I have always been honest about that.

Nowadays, and many years later, I can often detect differences, even subtle ones between cables. Often these differences aren't clear instantaneous, it could take days before I am sure of the differences and can also use words to describe these or the impact they have on emotional impact from the music. One of the reasons DBT/ABX tests won't work for me, unless the differences are "night and day" of course.

I'd like to think that I not only have improved my system and listening room but also have trained and improved my listening skills and perhaps even my hearing (the processing part happening in the brain). Perhaps a bit like someone who becomes blind will improve his listening skills/hearing (be it though enhanced focus or whatever mechanism at play there) I can't think of any valid reasons why I would have suddenly "trained" my susceptibility to the placebo effect, not even unconscious reasons.

The reason why quick switching tests are preferred is that the duration of echoic memory is around 3-4 seconds (or possibly up to a maximum of 20 seconds if there are no distractions). Quick switching tests are therefore much more accurate than listening tests over longer durations.

You're not alone in finding longer listening sessions more congenial: I do too, and I find quick switching quite tiring. But even so it is much more accurate.

Since I got 'Get better sound' I have been amazed by how much better I could make my system sound. This was my old system, not the one I have now. Since then, when I would be home from work, I had set my chair up exactly in the middle of the room because I had set my speakers up equidistant from the walls. In the small room it is, my wife got annoyed with it being in the way and asked me to move the chair over. This meant moving my speakers too. I did (the things we do for love). As it turns out that was a good move. The music sounded fuller and less edgy. I wasn't looking for it, I just noticed it. The explanation for it is easy; I moved closer to a window on the left, where there's less reflection, and further from the right, where there's just a wall with more reflection.

This is an example of a blind test as far as I'm concerned. And no, I'm not going to move my speakers and seat back to check whether I was right or not. I noticed a difference without looking for it and that's good enough for me.

If I decide to jump off the fence on the 'cables make a difference' side, it will have to be because of such a defining moment.

My old system was a Denon PMA720 amp and B&W DM14 speakers. I had that system for over twenty five years. Now I have a Devialet 200 and Dynaudio C1, my system sounds clearer, has better imaging, better and deeper bass and it sounds much more like real music than my old system. It also doesn't go as loud as my old system did.


I'm willing to bet my new system that I can pick my new system over my old system 100% of the time in a blind test, even though I never have before. And I also bet my new system that nobody on this forum really believes that this is of the placebo effect. 

IF I'm going to say that my new cable makes a huge difference I want to be able to bet my system on that statement. Otherwise I will jump off the other side of the fence. But jump I will. My ass is getting itchy on here  Smile
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
Reply
#28
IME cables rarely/never make huge differences, the differences can however be hugely worthwile/valuable. Smile

How much value one attaches to these differences differs from person to person and the "phase" one is in in building or optimizing his system. Smaller improvements, I think, are more worthwile and valuable to those who feel they have done the absolute best they can within reasonable limits (one such limit is often a financial one for those passionates willing to go really far) and are thus nearing an asymptote/end-station. In other words those searching for the last few percents of reasonably attainable performance. For these people a cable for example can also make or break a system, like when a system is really balanced this balance can be a fine line easily pushed over to the wrong side. This I think also explains why many people (I'm guilty of this myself as well I suppose) describe changes in a way that makes that makes them look bigger than they objectively are, or are/would be to any "outsider" not intimately familiar with the system.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
Reply
#29
I'm not saying there aren't any sound quality differences in expensive or cheap cables, but I've taken a very simple position. I know my brain (and every human brain) can be fooled quite easily. Optical illusions, expectation bias, peer pressure, emotion and so on. I can never be sure if I'm hearing a better cable, or if I need to hear a better cable, because it costs more, looks better, or other people I respect say it's better.
So my simple position is: I don't think it is worth the cost or the effort. I bought my cables because they just looked better.
Devialet 200 <> Bowers & Wilkins 805 Diamond <> Aurender N100 <> Clearaudio Concept MC <> Audioquest Rocket 44/Coffee USB

The Netherlands
Reply
#30
I came at this from the other direction.
For the first 25 years of having a hifi I went from believing totally in measured specs to being totally subjective, as a result of noticing a considerable difference between amps which should not have been there according to specs, I was checking to see if an amp I liked the look of was powerful enough for my speakers (it was less powerful than the amp I was already using). Finding that there was a big difference in SQ was a shock, and it took a while to find the source since a difference between amps was not where I looked first.

Anyway from then, around 1974, I only bought something which auditioned well to me, preferrably at home. I still do this but as an engineer things have to be plausible to science for my mind to be comfortable.
There are perfectly good, well understood and researched reasons why amplifiers could and do sound different.
There are perfectly good, well understood and researched reasons why loudspeakers could and do sound very different indeed.
There are perfectly good, well understood and researched reasons why digital electronics could and do sound different.
There are perfectly good, well understood and researched reasons why the listening room and the position of the speakers and listener within it make the biggest difference of all to the sound of a hifi.
I have never seen any technically plausible reasons why a correctly specified cable could possibly make a difference to sound quality.
I have seen a very few attempts but none were technically plausible at audio frequencies. If there is one I am sure it would have been published by now.

Sure there are ways one can make cables sound different. Putting a filter box in line can. Using high values for resistance, inductance and/or capacitance could all change the sound, but mainly by making the amplifier unstable...

Anyway, I had been persuaded to buy expensive cables, over the years, by enthusiastic demonstrators and other listeners getting all enthusiastic about them. I was never sure the I heard the differences they were hearing so in the mid to late 1990s I decided to do compare for myself at home.
I had a collection of very expensive, fairly expensive and modest cables from MIT, Goldmund, and various other flavour of the month items I had succumbed to over the years.
My daughter a music lover and accomplished musician but not particularly interested in the mechanics of hifi dis the changes. She made the changes so I auditioned interconnects and loudspeaker cables effectively blind.

The only ones which sounded different (and a lot better to my ears fwiw) were the expensive MIT loudspeaker cables with filters and the Goldmund ones, which had a different filter at each end. The filtered interconnects were a touch different.
All the others sounded the same, regardless of price and construction except one very expensive cable which turned out to have smaller than standard pins on its phono plug, and that was obvious because either one had sound or silence depending on whether the there was contact or not...

I still normally only buy equipment I audition first, preferably at home. Except cables.

Also people should not feel bad about the placebo effect. It works for a substantial proportion of the population. If it works for an individual the effect is real. It is the only scientifically plausible explanation I know of why a difference could be perceived between unfiltered cables.

I myself have gone from using speaker cables which cost >£6000 to ones costing around £20, but only because the Goldmund cables have a proprietary connector which Devialet doesn't match. I wouldn't have wasted the £20 otherwise.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 5 Guest(s)