Can my set up be improved?

[Jwg1749]

Matt, yes the M30.1 are SAM ready now. I have had this going for a few weeks and it's clearly different. I can switch it on or off with the remote, so it's easy to distinguish. The obvious difference is in the lower bass, the Harbeths sound like they're partnered with a sub it goes so low. I normally have a bass problem in my room, so I tend to reduce it, not add it. However, with SAM there's more bass but it's more controlled so it sounds fine in my room. Weird! Saying that, my downstairs neighbour has been away all summer and she hasn't had the benefit of hearing the difference yet, so I need to be mindful here. It feels a lot more full range than before. It still works well at lower volumes too.

That sounds great. Some people have reported increased LF distortion with SAM, and it's to be expected if the bass driver is being asked to do more, however our hearing is much less sensitive to LF distortion than HF, so I'd expect SAM to work really well with most speakers.

Going back to your original question, I doubt there's really much you can do to fettle your system. Sit back and enjoy!

Matt

[GuillaumeB]

I doubt there's really much you can do to fettle your system.

Other than the bonkers stuff right Matt?

Guillaume

[Jwg1749]

I doubt there's really much you can do to fettle your system.

Other than the bonkers stuff right Matt?

Guillaume

Exactement!

[Confused]

I thought all hi fi “enthusiasts” are, at least in part, inherently bonkers? And where is this other hi fi forum, where everything is sane, rational, logical and supported by facts? I want to join! Although as Groucho Marx said, “I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member”.

[f1eng]

That sounds great. Some people have reported increased LF distortion with SAM, and it's to be expected if the bass driver is being asked to do more, however our hearing is much less sensitive to LF distortion than HF, so I'd expect SAM to work really well with most speakers.

Going back to your original question, I doubt there's really much you can do to fettle your system. Sit back and enjoy!

Matt

One of the principle objectives of SAM was to reduce bass distortion, which is usually quite large even on pricy speakers.
The speakers are measured and the errors in cone movement mapped, as is the voice coil heating and safe travel of the cone.
The speaker is not really being asked to do more, in fact, since the mapping of the bass unit means the Devialet config will not allow it to be overloaded.
A transfer function of the error is calculated then inverted to make the SAM file, along with mapping the thermal limits and travel limits of the bass driver.
So SAM reduces distortion and prevents damage.
I would guess anybody hearing more distortion has either got the wrong SAM file, is so used to the sound of their speakers that losing the distortion sounds wrong or is driving the speakers so hard they are into the thermal or travel limits of the map and SAM is in "protect the speakers from abuse" mode.
I would guess anybody who has the latter problem needs speakers more suitable to their loudness requirements.

[Jwg1749]

One of the principle objectives of SAM was to reduce bass distortion, which is usually quite large even on pricy speakers.
The speakers are measured and the errors in cone movement mapped, as is the voice coil heating and safe travel of the cone.
The speaker is not really being asked to do more, in fact, since the mapping of the bass unit means the Devialet config will not allow it to be overloaded.
A transfer function of the error is calculated then inverted to make the SAM file, along with mapping the thermal limits and travel limits of the bass driver.
So SAM reduces distortion and prevents damage.
I would guess anybody hearing more distortion has either got the wrong SAM file, is so used to the sound of their speakers that losing the distortion sounds wrong or is driving the speakers so hard they are into the thermal or travel limits of the map and SAM is in "protect the speakers from abuse" mode.
I would guess anybody who has the latter problem needs speakers more suitable to their loudness requirements.

I was thinking specifically of a couple of reports of the LS50s, which suggested that there were immediately audible problems with some (admittedly bass-heavy) music, and that these problems disappeared when SAM was switched off. Now it may be that it wasn't actually driver distortion at all, as you seem to be arguing. It may just have been excitement of a room mode. Since I'm going on second-hand reports, I can't really say any more.

I hear what you say about how SAM works: but it remains the case that in getting deeper LF extension out of a small driver, SAM does walk a fine line.

[f1eng]

One of the principle objectives of SAM was to reduce bass distortion, which is usually quite large even on pricy speakers.
The speakers are measured and the errors in cone movement mapped, as is the voice coil heating and safe travel of the cone.
The speaker is not really being asked to do more, in fact, since the mapping of the bass unit means the Devialet config will not allow it to be overloaded.
A transfer function of the error is calculated then inverted to make the SAM file, along with mapping the thermal limits and travel limits of the bass driver.
So SAM reduces distortion and prevents damage.
I would guess anybody hearing more distortion has either got the wrong SAM file, is so used to the sound of their speakers that losing the distortion sounds wrong or is driving the speakers so hard they are into the thermal or travel limits of the map and SAM is in "protect the speakers from abuse" mode.
I would guess anybody who has the latter problem needs speakers more suitable to their loudness requirements.

I was thinking specifically of a couple of reports of the LS50s, which suggested that there were immediately audible problems with some (admittedly bass-heavy) music, and that these problems disappeared when SAM was switched off. Now it may be that it wasn't actually driver distortion at all, as you seem to be arguing. It may just have been excitement of a room mode. Since I'm going on second-hand reports, I can't really say any more.

I hear what you say about how SAM works: but it remains the case that in getting deeper LF extension out of a small driver, SAM does walk a fine line.

I have LS 50s, but have only tried them once with the Devialet.
As you write there could be a room mode being excited (25Hz with SAM, 40Hz without).
The fact that SAM can allow a LS50 to achieve these frequencies does not actually give them more or less power handling capability and they certainly still won't go as loud in the bass as bigger speakers.
It would surely be quite likely that the problem of playing loud bass heavy music with the LS50 and SAM is that the thermal and/or travel limits programmed in would be likely to be exceeded for the teensy mid/bass unit and SAM be in protection mode, no?

I was very impressed by the bass of my LS50s on full range orchestral music.

[Jwg1749]

I have LS 50s, but have only tried them once with the Devialet.
As you write there could be a room mode being excited (25Hz with SAM, 40Hz without).
The fact that SAM can allow a LS50 to achieve these frequencies does not actually give them more or less power handling capability and they certainly still won't go as loud in the bass as bigger speakers.
It would surely be quite likely that the problem of playing loud bass heavy music with the LS50 and SAM is that the thermal and/or travel limits programmed in would be likely to be exceeded for the teensy mid/bass unit and SAM be in protection mode, no?

I was very impressed by the bass of my LS50s on full range orchestral music.

I agree entirely.

Part of the problem here is synthesized bass. In its extreme forms (which are actually fairly common in some styles of music) it's far removed from anything you get in classical music (except perhaps for some infrequent passages in organ music). So whilst the LS50s do very well with orchestral music, they may fall down (or be more liable to excite a room mode) with this synthesized stuff.

[Novak]

Agreed re the synth bass. I don't listen to a lot of electronic, but after hearing Bruno Pronsato's 'lovers do' album with SAM on full, at a decent volume, the Harbeths were shaking. I don't normally see the cones move at all. I imagine any speaker would shake here though. Give it a try, even if it's not your cup of tea!

[Confused]

Agreed re the synth bass. I don't listen to a lot of electronic, but after hearing Bruno Pronsato's 'lovers do' album with SAM on full, at a decent volume, the Harbeths were shaking. I don't normally see the cones move at all. I imagine any speaker would shake here though. Give it a try, even if it's not your cup of tea!

@Novak - I promise to try this, if you have a listen to "spoons" by Rudimental. Check your cieling plaster first though.......