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Shunyata Research
All fair points, i just wished (for my personal needs) that this sort of technology were less 'premium' positioned. It's not just Shunyata - but in my head if something's on the wall like a Devialet, then it's easier to justify the premium cost for looks, when it's on the floor I just can't bring myself. Ultimately it's more about me (not) being able to afford it than anything else Sad. If they sell in reasonable numbers then the prices must be about right.

I took the price from the 6000T here btw at £5,700 which I rounded down..... what's the one at £4K?

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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(06-Mar-2017, 11:50)Hifi_swlon Wrote: All fair points, i just wished (for my personal needs) that this sort of technology were less 'premium' positioned. It's not just Shunyata - but in my head if something's on the wall like a Devialet, then it's easier to justify the premium cost for looks, when it's on the floor I just can't bring myself. Ultimately it's more about me (not) being able to afford it than anything else Sad.

I took the price from the 6000T here at £5,700 which I rounded down.....

It's the 4000/T you should look at. It sits on the floor and is very discreet. Has its own solid base and feet. Small and beautifully made, it will trounce a PS Audio P10 or something big, heavy and noisy (and most are due to the presence of transformers, chokes, coils and capacitors). 

The only issue is that at the moment it's Schuko only so that means running a Schuko cable from the Denali to the Devialet.

I am trying to convince Shunyata to make a UK Denali.  Smile

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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I too love the way the Shunyata Denali and Devialet Expert sound but would happily give up the fancy casework for reduced cost unless the case contributes to sound quality.

We know from our forum members' experiments that the Devialet case degrades sound quality vs. a better ventilated, non-magnetic, and nickel-free case. However we also know that the casework is the limiting factor differentiating the lower and upper models, with the better Expert models having higher power output simply because the better case can dissipate the increased heat.

I think that Shunyata has thought about how their casework affects the sound quality. They've experimented with dampening materials, fastener torque settings, and types of isolation feet (among other things). What I don't know is whether they tested cheap-looking casework or assumed that we audiophiles wouldn't buy a collection of SOTA parts inside a cheap-looking case.

So while I object to paying for fancy cases I do recognize that the casework can affect the sound and I'm willing to pay for good-sounding casework.
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(06-Mar-2017, 15:07)deviousalet Wrote: We know from our forum members' experiments that the Devialet case degrades sound quality vs. a better ventilated, non-magnetic, and nickel-free case. However we also know that the casework is the limiting factor differentiating the lower and upper models, with the better Expert models having higher power output simply because the better case can dissipate the increased heat.

Do we know this?  I presume you are referring to Manoet's efforts modifying a D200.  Last time we saw Manoet on here he was selling the thing!  OK, he did state his reasons for selling, but am I the only one who thought it was a little odd to go to all that effort modifying, both for performance and looks, and then decide to sell?  To be clear, I have no idea if any of his modifications made any difference or not.  I would have loved to have had the pleasure of a head to head test between a standard D200 and the Manoet special.  In the absence of this, I have no idea if the better ventilated, non-magnetic, and nickel-free case made any difference to sound quality or not.  Maybe it sounded brilliant, but I am always sceptical of one man's views of his own modifications.  Anyway, it's at this point I need to apologise for going off topic, something I often get annoyed at others doing.  My excuse in this case is I just had to extend my thoughts to the above statement.

So, lets get this back on topic.  I recall reading a manufactures claim for the Denali 6000, this claim was that the Denali can improve dynamics.  This interested me enormously.  The fact is that my fairly limited experience with Devialets and power conditioners is that they have a very detrimental effect on dynamics.  In a way this is good for me, in that I can save money by plugging my amps direct into the mains, happy in my own little world that this is offering the best performance.  However, a mains conditioner that can improve dynamics?  That would be interesting!  The other mains conditioner thought that I have is related to the reports that Devialet's SMPS does push a lot of unpleasant stuff back into the mains.  One mitigation here is to plug dual mono amps into separate mains circuits, and perhaps connecting the delicate front end source stuff into a third spur, at perhaps their own mains conditioner.  However, if you had a top flight mains conditioners, would you not want to plug both amps into it?  This of course puts both amps back onto the same spur, maybe not an issue if the said mains conditioner also isolate the outlet sockets from each other.  Then  this leads me to the conclusion that the ultimate solution for a dual mono user would be to have three mains conditioners, one for each amp and one for the front end stuff.  Is this as crazy as it sounds?  Maybe I'm overthinking all this!  The thing is, I quite fancy having something like a decent mains conditioner, especially one that either has no negative effect on dynamics, let alone one that can improve dynamics.  But when I think it all through, I can help thinking that I'm ok as I am, going direct into the mains.  Maybe I am wrong?  To be honest I simply have not have enough hands on experience of this kind of stuff to be sure, so I am interested in the views of those that have.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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On the topic of the value of casework: I didn't hear Manoet's Devialet or the others who modified theirs, but I believe what they said about them. Even if you don't, we can agree that the difference between a Devialet 440 and 1000 is the case, since Devialet states that the internals are otherwise identical.

On the topic of power conditioning: I've heard the differences that power cords and power conditioners make with my Devialet 400. Upgrading from stock to Shunyata Z-PC10 power cords was an obvious and completely positive improvement. When I evaluated power conditioners it was vs. plugging my D400 directly into the wall on a dedicated circuit (which as another obvious and completely positive improvement in my house). A Furman IT-Reference 20i made some improvements but also detracted from aspects and overall I preferred the sound without it. A Shunyata Hydra Model-2 made some improvements with only minor detractions but still has aspects that were worse than direct to the outlet. My Shunyata Denali 6000/S has only positive effects vs. direct to the wall outlet. So for me I get better sound with the right power conditioner. I'm also using one because I need a way to turn off the Devialet, which the switch on the Denali gives me. Overall I think that good power cords and a dedicated circuit make more difference than a power conditioner in my system, but that's probably because my power cords have filters that do some power conditioning and my dedicated circuit removed the noise injected into the line by other devices. I would recommend trying these things for yourself. I'm only sharing my experience because I learned from others so hope to provide the same help I received.
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The Denali made the cover of the latest issue of the Absolute Sound!  Smile

   

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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Yes I read the above review and fair to say the Denali gets a very positive review
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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Available online, or only in print?

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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I subscribe to the digital edition , not sure it's available in print as I think it's a USA publication
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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The Denali review appears to be in the public domain:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles...ng-system/

One point I am not quite clear on are the two 'HC' outlets. These are the high current outlets for power amps. So if you used the two HC outlets for a dual mono Devialet set up, are the two outlets / amps fully isolated from each other?
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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