Devialet Reviews

[Jerry Seh]

I fully agree with Damon. In no way the Devialet is lesser. Its all a matter of opinion and taste, kind alike bread on the shelve. Whole grain, Milk, White, Walnut and Fruit ... one choose what they like and it basically does the same thing - fill the HiFi hunger pang to one's satisfaction.

[MightyMart]

I agree that this is quite off-topic but nevertheless an important discussion. I have also not found a suitable thread anywhere on this forum to post this topic, so here we go:

There is of course the matter of taste and preference when it comes to music and how music should sound when reproduced using an amplifier, speakers etc. This is something I think we all can agree upon.

However, the notion that because it is impossible to reproduce a sound and make it sound a 100 % natural it should be left to individual preference only is not entirely correct.

I can for instance record a single violin string being struck once and then through repeated improvements of the technical gear try to reproduce that sound as acuratelly as possible via an amplifier and speakers. The best reference for this would be to strike that same violin string again and compare it to the reproduced sound that is created electrically by the the amplifier and speakers.

The problem is that a lot of audiophiles spend a lot more time comparing reproduced sound than experiencing live music and/or instruments. This tends to lead to us comparing different amplifiers, speakers etc. instead of comparing the electrically reproduced sound with the original sound, i.e. with the musical instrument that originally created the real sound and not how it sounded on different gear.

Taste is subjected to change through experience (just think of coffee for instance and learning to like it) and if our experience of real sound is limited, then it can probably lead to some less qualified choices.

Naturally reproduced sound is what I think should define true high-end audio.

So, in your experiences (not merely taste) does Devialet reproduce sound naturally or not in your view?

[Damon]

Hi Jerry, Welcome to the forum.

MightyMart,
I was not suggesting that your post was off topic at all. I was being critical of myself, not others. I hope there was no offence taken as none was intended.

I think your points and questions above are all good. I just don't know if there are any definite answers. Certainly not all opinions are equally valid, at least not for all subjects. I want my audio salesperson to be knowledgeable about the equipment, and understand natural and recorded and reproduced sound; so I agree with you completely on that. Audio is not exactly like coffee or cake.

To your question, I would answer 'yes, Devialet does reproduce sound naturally'. I've listened to enough hi fi and enough live music that I feel pretty comfortable that I know what an instrument sounds like. Electric bass certainly but I also played trombone and bassoon earlier in my life. And I'm more likely to listen to baroque quintets or Opera live than rock music. But again, all those instruments sound different in the hands and lips of different performers. We all understand that- it simply means there is variation in natural, live sound.

I would guess that most members here like what the Devialet does for audio reproduction. The Devialet is sort of like the narrow part of the hourglass in that respect. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what others say in response to the question. After the amp, however, we all select sources and loudspeakers that we like, and then the whole thing blows up, with a huge range of different components.

Maybe the high end of equipment is a group or a sphere of equipment that has some overlap with the group of 'lesser' gear? Are there varying levels of quality? Certainly, but even knowledgable opinions will differ. I just don't buy the idea of a thin line that absolutely separates 'true hi fi' from the not hi-fi. We inevitably use our individual experiences and our individual preferences to decide what we want to have and listen to.

[MightyMart]

Hi Jerry, Welcome to the forum.

MightyMart,
I was not suggesting that your post was off topic at all. I was being critical of myself, not others. I hope there was no offence taken as none was intended.

I think your points and questions above are all good. I just don't know if there are any definite answers. Certainly not all opinions are equally valid, at least not for all subjects. I want my audio salesperson to be knowledgeable about the equipment, and understand natural and recorded and reproduced sound; so I agree with you completely on that. Audio is not exactly like coffee or cake.

To your question, I would answer 'yes, Devialet does reproduce sound naturally'. I've listened to enough hi fi and enough live music that I feel pretty comfortable that I know what an instrument sounds like. Electric bass certainly but I also played trombone and bassoon earlier in my life. And I'm more likely to listen to baroque quintets or Opera live than rock music. But again, all those instruments sound different in the hands and lips of different performers. We all understand that- it simply means there is variation in natural, live sound.

I would guess that most members here like what the Devialet does for audio reproduction. The Devialet is sort of like the narrow part of the hourglass in that respect. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what others say in response to the question. After the amp, however, we all select sources and loudspeakers that we like, and then the whole thing blows up, with a huge range of different components.

Maybe the high end of equipment is a group or a sphere of equipment that has some overlap with the group of 'lesser' gear? Are there varying levels of quality? Certainly, but even knowledgable opinions will differ. I just don't buy the idea of a thin line that absolutely separates 'true hi fi' from the not hi-fi. We inevitably use our individual experiences and our individual preferences to decide what we want to have and listen to.

Hi Damon! 

Don't worry, no need to apologize at all.   I was simply acknowledging the fact that neither my post was really on-topic.

It really struck me that there is no thread to talk about music, hi-fi in general, high end etc. on this forum. Still I felt, after posting the link to that comment made by Mono & Stereo and getting some feedback from you and Jerry, that there is a need to talk about the difference about "good" sound and "true" (i.e. high fidelity") sound. This particular point has often been in the center of the criticism toward Devialet's products from some audiophiles not agreeing with the quality or nature of the sound.

I think the Devialet amplifiers sets a new standard when it comes to separation, clarity and effortlessness. In my view the amplifiers do however have a week spot when it comes to reproducing vibrant and organic sound with that particular luster and intimacy an acoustic instrument or a voice creates. This was impossible for me to disregard from when auditioning the Gryphon Diablo 300 a couple of weeks ago. When playing a high quality recording of piano music the Diablo created that vibration in the air that you also feel in your body when standing close to a grand piano. That effect was also clearly noticeable with other acoustic instrument (everything from drums to guitars).

The downside of the Diablo was that it is so incredibly powerful that I had the same feeling in my ears and head after 2-3 hours of listening to records that you have after leaving a very intense live concert. I experienced a fatigue that I never do with Devialet and ended up returning the Diablo. The Diablo could neither match the Devialet when it came to top end separation and playing complex sounds like when a group of viola are playing together (it was harder to actually hear each individual viola). I will sorely miss that live feeling though...

[Pim]

A comment from "Mono and Stereo" on the issue of Devialet being true high-end or not. I must say there are some good points here.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/02/dev...ution.html

Says nothing really......

Like I said, it was merely a comment and not a review. But yes, I think it really did tell us something. It brought up the issue of what is a true high-end gear and what isn't.

So, what do we think - are Devialet amplifiers a true high-end product?

Yes they are. Unless you're a snob. Devialet have come up with a solution to make better sound through putting everything together in one box. Just because they've put it in a pretty one doesn't suddenly make it a lifestyle product. 

A few weeks ago I had a listen to 90 grands worth of McIntosh gear and I wasn't impressed at all. My O d'A beats that hands down.

[Confused]

The link to the 'mono and stereo' article has appeared on this forum before. Last time, I think I dismissed it without much thought, a case of the article being fairly meaningless and surrounded by very many banner adverts for rival amplifier products. But here it is again! So I thought I would write some more considered words.

The writer makes this comment regarding the hifi press that writes good things about Devialet: 'Yet, taking the nerve to call it the replacement for the complete high-end audio system is kind of… very wrong for me to sign under. ' Interesting words I thought, as the writer does sign under his own article.

More words 'Perhaps the reason for positioning the Devialet on the right plane is disagreeing of the avid borderline between hi-fi and high-end.' The funny thing here is that I consider one of my passions in life to be music, and in terms of the reproduction I tend to use the term 'hi-fi'. Indeed, it is high fidelity that I am after! I never use the term 'high end' when referring to my system, and very rarely use the term at all. Indeed, I would argue that Devialet is not 'high end', because if you take the complete spectrum of audio equipment available to buy, Devialet pricing sits above the cheapest kit, but is a vary long way down from the most expensive. So I think it is a stupid term to use, Pim's post above is spot on when he refers to snobbery. But is Devialet 'hi-fi', in terms of accurate reproduction of music, too right it is! Since hearing Devialet for the first time about three and a half years ago, I have spent quite a bit of effort trying to find kit that sounds better. OK, I have found kit that maybe sounds a little different, and kit that gets very close to the sound that Devialet achieves, but have I found anything that is truly superior to Devialet? No I haven't.

OK, lets forget the semantics of high end and take the one single comment in the article that actually mentions sound quality; 'Despite the ADC hybrid technology and all the whistles and high praises, Devialet still sounds like a derivate of Class D. More ironed, refined, but still. It brings out the feeling of virtual linearity, that is being explained as ultimate natural transparency, judging by the descriptions all over the medias.' So does Devialet sound 'Class D'. This is perhaps a strange thing to say these days as there are one or two class D amps in the market that are getting a very good reputation, so this is perhaps a bit of a lazy term, but let's go with it. Myself I have tried many amps with the Blades, including class A amps that once you add pre-amp, DAC, phono stage would cost very much more than a Devialet, and when you get everything right, the end result does in fact sound very similar to a Devialet. I could give many experiences over the years, but lets take one from yesterday. I was at the National Audio show listening to the Vivid Giya G2's powered by the Devialet 1000 Pro. I was chatting to the Vivid guy and asked him why they had chosen Devialet amps for the show. He came out with the same line that I have heard KEF using, that is that their speakers will work well with many amplifiers, so they like to use different amps at different shows. Specifically regarding the Devialet, he said that their view is that the speaker is where customers should spend the bulk of their money, and he considered the 1000 Pro to be about the right price ratio for the G2's, he then went on to say that the great thing about the Devialet was that it sounded like a Class A amplifier but with real power. OK, one man's view, but this is a guy with much experience of demoing speakers with different amps, and a man with a vested interest in making sure the end result sounds good. If he thought the Devialet sounded like a 'derivative of Class D' I'm sure he would not have let Devialet anywhere near his precious Giya's. Then another example from yesterday, Oxford Audio happens to be on-route for my trip home from the National Audio show. I was aware that OAC still had the full dCS rig with D'Agostino M400 Momentum mono blocks in their demo room, this was there from the dCS event on Thursday and due to be picked up next week. A chance not to me missed! So I spent a happy hour there listening to some favourite tunes, and yes, very good it sounded too! (Many thanks yet again to OAC for allowing this opportunity, and even getting the teas and coffee in!) I believe the full dCS rig is about £65k,and apparently the D'Agostino M400's are about £27k each. OK, we used the streamer not the CD player, so this knocks a few £'s of the total, but there was also quite a few thousand pounds worth of cables and racks in evidence. This was a rig well into the 6 figure price range even before you add speakers. Was it any good? Yes it was! In fact it is I think the absolute best I have ever heard the Sasha II's sounding. I have to say I would have loved to have listened to the Blades on this rig, but it was a 100% Absolute Sounds set-up and it is not as if I was auditioning with a serious intent to purchase. The thing is though, after listening to the 1000 Pro with the Blades and then with the Giya G2's, was it a case that the £100k+ dCS/Agostino rig was in another league entirely to the mealy hi-fi Devialet? Absolutely not! Far more similar that there were different. To sum up, the mono and stereo article is little more than waffle and nonsense. I shall sum up where I started with another quote; 'What I cannot understand is the constant industry pushing and high praising of Devialet from the fellow high-end media representatives. Is the marketing coin really so sweet?' At the exact time I read these words, the advert next to the paragraph was for this outfit:

http://www.fmacoustics.com/products/audi...-products/

I rest my case!

[Confused]

I agree that this is quite off-topic but nevertheless an important discussion. I have also not found a suitable thread anywhere on this forum to post this topic, so here we go:

There is of course the matter of taste and preference when it comes to music and how music should sound when reproduced using an amplifier, speakers etc. This is something I think we all can agree upon.

However, the notion that because it is impossible to reproduce a sound and make it sound a 100 % natural it should be left to individual preference only is not entirely correct.

I can for instance record a single violin string being struck once and then through repeated improvements of the technical gear try to reproduce that sound as acuratelly as possible via an amplifier and speakers. The best reference for this would be to strike that same violin string again and compare it to the reproduced sound that is created electrically by the the amplifier and speakers.

The problem is that a lot of audiophiles spend a lot more time comparing reproduced sound than experiencing live music and/or instruments. This tends to lead to us comparing different amplifiers, speakers etc. instead of comparing the electrically reproduced sound with the original sound, i.e. with the musical instrument that originally created the real sound and not how it sounded on different gear.

Taste is subjected to change through experience (just think of coffee for instance and learning to like it) and if our experience of real sound is limited, then it can probably lead to some less qualified choices.

Naturally reproduced sound is what I think should define true high-end audio.

So, in your experiences (not merely taste) does Devialet reproduce sound naturally or not in your view?

In my experience, yes.  Although my experience like that of many others has to be a little subjective, but I do have a lot of experience listening to live bands, and also in my younger days working with bands, organising gigs, setting up kit for gigs, working with PA systems, and so on.  There is a pub I visit form time to time that features live bands.  It is about the right size to have a band where the singer & guitarists are amplified, but the drum kit not, so remains truly 'real' in your terms.  As to say reproducing the sound of a kick-drum at home via a Devialet, I would say that a Devialet D800 can do this with ease, however, the biggest issue will be finding speakers that can do this.  Speakers are far more of a limitation than Devialet amplifiers I think in terms of achieving the 'experience of real sound'.  Having said all that, I reckon the best person to answer this question is not me, but fellow poster F1eng.  Here is a man that uses Deviaet and makes his own recordings.  OK, he can speak for himself, but he has posted previously regarding how transparent Devialet amplifiers are, based on experience of comparing his own recordings to what he has heard for real.  He is also someone who owns and therefore has good experience of Goldmund amps, amongst other things.  For me, I would certainly categorise Goldmund as 'high-end'.  (AKA b###### expensive)

[Zappydev]

The link to the 'mono and stereo' article has appeared on this forum before.  Last time, I think I dismissed it without much thought, a case of the article being fairly meaningless and surrounded by very many banner adverts for rival amplifier products.  But here it is again!  So I thought I would write some more considered words.

The writer makes this comment regarding the hifi press that writes good things about Devialet: 'Yet, taking the nerve to call it the replacement for the complete high-end audio system is kind of… very wrong for me to sign under. '  Interesting words I thought, as the writer does sign under his own article.

More words 'Perhaps the reason for positioning the Devialet on the right plane is disagreeing of the avid borderline between hi-fi and high-end.'  The funny thing here is that I consider one of my passions in life to be music, and in terms of the reproduction I tend to use the term 'hi-fi'.  Indeed, it is high fidelity that I am after!  I never use the term 'high end' when referring to my system, and very rarely use the term at all.  Indeed, I would argue that Devialet is not 'high end', because if you take the complete spectrum of audio equipment available to buy, Devialet pricing sits above the cheapest kit, but is a vary long way down from the most expensive.  So I think it is a stupid term to use, Pim's post above is spot on when he refers to snobbery.  But is Devialet 'hi-fi', in terms of accurate reproduction of music, too right it is!  Since hearing Devialet for the first time about three and a half years ago, I have spent quite a bit of effort trying to find kit that sounds better.  OK, I have found kit that maybe sounds a little different, and kit that gets very close to the sound that Devialet achieves, but have I found anything that is truly superior to Devialet?  No I haven't.

OK, lets forget the semantics of high end and take the one single comment in the article that actually mentions sound quality; 'Despite the ADC hybrid technology and all the whistles and high praises, Devialet still sounds like a derivate of Class D. More ironed, refined, but still. It brings out the feeling of virtual linearity, that is being explained as ultimate natural transparency, judging by the descriptions all over the medias.'  So does Devialet sound 'Class D'.  This is perhaps a strange thing to say these days as there are one or two class D amps in the market that are getting a very good reputation, so this is perhaps a bit of a lazy term, but let's go with it.  Myself I have tried many amps with the Blades, including class A amps that once you add pre-amp, DAC, phono stage would cost very much more than a Devialet, and when you get everything right, the end result does in fact sound very similar to a Devialet.  I could give many experiences over the years, but lets take one from yesterday.  I was at the National Audio show listening to the Vivid Giya G2's powered by the Devialet 1000 Pro.  I was chatting to the Vivid guy and asked him why they had chosen Devialet amps for the show.  He came out with the same line that I have heard KEF using, that is that their speakers will work well with many amplifiers, so they like to use different amps at different shows.  Specifically regarding the Devialet, he said that their view is that the speaker is where customers should spend the bulk of their money, and he considered the 1000 Pro to be about the right price ratio for the G2's, he then went on to say that the great thing about the Devialet was that it sounded like a Class A amplifier but with real power.  OK, one man's view, but this is a guy with much experience of demoing speakers with different amps, and a man with a vested interest in making sure the end result sounds good.  If he thought the Devialet sounded like a 'derivative of Class D' I'm sure he would not have let Devialet anywhere near his precious Giya's.  Then another example from yesterday, Oxford Audio happens to be on-route for my trip home from the National Audio show.  I was aware that OAC still had the full dCS rig with D'Agostino M400 Momentum mono blocks in their demo room, this was there from the dCS event on Thursday and due to be picked up next week.  A chance not to me missed!  So I spent a happy hour there listening to some favourite tunes, and yes, very good it sounded too!  (Many thanks yet again to OAC for allowing this opportunity, and even getting the teas and coffee in!)  I believe the full dCS rig is about £65k,and apparently the D'Agostino M400's are about £27k each.  OK, we used the streamer not the CD player, so this knocks a few £'s of the total, but there was also quite a few thousand pounds worth of cables and racks in evidence.  This was a rig well into the 6 figure price range even before you add speakers.   Was it any good?  Yes it was!  In fact it is I think the absolute best I have ever heard the Sasha II's sounding.  I have to say I would have loved to have listened to the Blades on this rig, but it was a 100% Absolute Sounds set-up and it is not as if I was auditioning with a serious intent to purchase.  The thing is though, after listening to the 1000 Pro with the Blades and then with the Giya G2's, was it a case that the £100k+ dCS/Agostino rig was in another league entirely to the mealy hi-fi Devialet?  Absolutely not!  Far more similar that there were different.  To sum up, the mono and stereo article is little more than waffle and nonsense.  I shall sum up where I started with another quote; 'What I cannot understand is the constant industry pushing and high praising of Devialet from the fellow high-end media representatives. Is the marketing coin really so sweet?'  At the exact time I read these words, the advert next to the paragraph was for this outfit:

http://www.fmacoustics.com/products/audi...-products/

I rest my case!

Excellent and informative commentary - much more useful than the original article.

Thanks for posting. 

Squish.

[GuillaumeB]

 I was aware that OAC still had the full dCS rig with D'Agostino M400 Momentum mono blocks in their demo room, this was there from the dCS event on Thursday and due to be picked up next week.  

I didn't know that, that's a shame I might have come along yesterday

Guillaume

[MightyMart]

I had no idea an article posting and a question regarding it would trigger this kind of response.

I would just like to clarify a few things. I never claimed to agree with either the statements in the article or with the fashion in which they were presented. I too found the tone in the article to be biased and close to aggressive.

The reason I posted the article was that it brings up the question of what true high-end is and how it could be explained. High fidelity sound reproduction is, according to me at least, the ability to reproduce sound in a natural way. This ability/inability has been, like I wrote earlier, in the center of the criticism against Devialet from certain reviewers, dealers and even owners.

This question has also not been talked about to on this forum a great deal, and by that I am referring to the issue of what is high-end audio or high fidelity. I think it is a bit troublesome that a lot of us refer to the matter of "taste" when confronted with this question. It makes it hard to discuss the issue any further because "who am I to tell you your taste is wrong" etc. This was my only reason for posting the article and to my initial question and then responding to the input.

I hope I don't come across as a snobb now.