Battles: D220 upgrade vs. 2nd D200 vs. D200 companion

[brit]

I think the sweetspot still in the whole range is the D400 I can understand the comments on here when people have upgraded from D400 to D800 they are not overwhelmed with the difference in sound.

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

I have just recently gone from 400 to 800 and can confirm that there was a vast improvement in my system.

David

[apichetk]

@Rodney Gold, I'm leaning this way, too. Thanks for your thought.

@Finn, yes, I totally agree with you that the 220 Pro needs to be noticeably better than the 200 to justify its hefty upgrade cost. Its upgrade cost is also the reason that I 'm contemplating adding another D200 or a companion. The majority of people seem to perceive much better SQ after the upgrade.

@Confused, business-wise, I also think that there is a good reason for Devialet to extend the upgrade period...especially if the Pro version receives good reviews which create a strong demand for upgrade. I personally suspect if the Pro version will be that much better than the current version given that the current version seems to garner lots of raving reviews from pro reviewers and consumers alike. Yes, the SQ may improve...but I again do wonder how much. I can't wait to see someone pitting D220 against D400 or even D440 vs. D400!

@mdconnelly, I spoke with my dealer and he told me that he didn't hear much of a difference vs. D200 and that the D220 under-performed D400.

@G51, ha ha that's true! My dog would love the remote.

@vrln, that's a fair point. Very fair point. Thanks for the reminder.

@egg1dog, thanks very much for sharing your experience. Appreciate it. I heard the D800 once and that was probably the best experience so far with the Devialet. Then, I listened to the same speakers driven by D200 and I was surprised at how difference the D800 made to the sound that the same speakers produced. Noticeably less detail, poorer imaging and smaller soundstage. I hope that the D400 will be 80-90% of the D800. If that's the case, the D400 will be a very valid option for me. Then, I wouldn't care if the D440 would be 85-95% of the D800.

@miles, thanks very much for sharing your experience. D200 seems to be a better option regarding flexibility as you said. On the other hand, I think that there may be people who just want to buy a companion to upgrade to D400 and that would leave me with a D200 which should also be easy to sell? Not sure how the market works here. The decision may boil down to the difference in cost between a D200 and companion.

@GuillaumeB, can you please share what areas of improvement the buyer noticed right away? Thanks GuillaumeB!

@brit, I would love to hear your experience, brit. Cheers

[egg1dog]

I think the sweetspot still in the whole range is the D400 I can understand the comments on here when people have upgraded from D400 to D800 they are not overwhelmed with the difference in sound.

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

I have just recently gone from 400 to 800 and can confirm that there was a vast improvement in my system.

David

As I said my conclusions come from the context of my system in my listening room. From reading comments on here you do not get the leap in performance like you do from 200 to 400. Also am i the only person who noticed a laid back quality to the 250 ? Some people may like this I don't so does adding another 250 to form an 800 remove this trait ? I would love to hear a 400 v 800 for sure.

[egg1dog]

I think the sweetspot still in the whole range is the D400 I can understand the comments on here when people have upgraded from D400 to D800 they are not overwhelmed with the difference in sound.

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

I have just recently gone from 400 to 800 and can confirm that there was a vast improvement in my system.

David

Here is one quote I read, the cost to upgrade from 400 to 800 is not cheap so I standby my conclusion that the 400 is the sweetspot for price/performance ratio :-

Listening to a piece of equipment before buying is definitely the right thing to do. However, this is not always possible.
I bought my D200 without auditioning, to replace my Ayon Triton tube integrated amp. 
I was thrilled with the new Devialet. After about a year into this, again I upgraded to D400 by getting a new Companion. The improvement in sound quality is beyond my expectation. I wouldn't even hesitate one bit to upgrade knowing what I know now. The D400 sound is amazing, much better than D200 stand alone.
Then my dealer called me to say someone didn't want the D800 on order and asked if I wanted it. Once again I upgraded to D800 from my D400.
The improvement this time isn't as much as in D200 to D400 but at least I have explored and experienced what it is like.
This audio journey has been one that is exciting and fulfilling.
Once you get your Companion and upgrade to D400, I am quite certain you will find a huge improvement. Enjoy!
Do let us know and keep us updated!

[brit]

@Rodney Gold, I'm leaning this way, too.  Thanks for your thought.

@Finn, yes, I totally agree with you that the 220 Pro needs to be noticeably better than the 200 to justify its hefty upgrade cost.  Its upgrade cost is also the reason that I 'm contemplating adding another D200 or a companion.  The majority of people seem to perceive much better SQ after the upgrade.

@Confused, business-wise, I also think that there is a good reason for Devialet to extend the upgrade period...especially if the Pro version receives good reviews which create a strong demand for upgrade.  I personally suspect if the Pro version will be that much better than the current version given that the current version seems to garner lots of raving reviews from pro reviewers and consumers alike.  Yes, the SQ may improve...but I again do wonder how much.  I can't wait to see someone pitting D220 against D400 or even D440 vs. D400!

@mdconnelly, I spoke with my dealer and he told me that he didn't hear much of a difference vs. D200 and that the D220 under-performed D400.

@G51, ha ha that's true!  My dog would love the remote.

@vrln, that's a fair point.  Very fair point.  Thanks for the reminder.

@egg1dog, thanks very much for sharing your experience.  Appreciate it.  I heard the D800 once and that was probably the best experience so far with the Devialet.  Then, I listened to the same speakers driven by D200 and I was surprised at how difference the D800 made to the sound that the same speakers produced.  Noticeably less detail, poorer imaging and smaller soundstage.  I hope that the D400 will be 80-90% of the D800.  If that's the case, the D400 will be a very valid option for me.  Then, I wouldn't care if the D440 would be 85-95% of the D800.  

@miles, thanks very much for sharing your experience.  D200 seems to be a better option regarding flexibility as you said.  On the other hand, I think that there may be people who just want to buy a companion to upgrade to D400 and that would leave me with a D200 which should also be easy to sell?  Not sure how the market works here.  The decision may boil down to the difference in cost between a D200 and companion.  

@GuillaumeB, can you please share what areas of improvement the buyer noticed right away?  Thanks GuillaumeB!

@brit, I would love to hear your experience, brit.  Cheers

Hi apichetk. My experience with Devialet started with a demo of a D170 vs D240 (before the firmware update that increased the power, from 170 to 200, and 240 to 250 respectively) on that occasion the 240 won hands down. there was a much better sense of control, and ease in the system - my speakers, at that time, were the Wilson-Benesch ACT 1, which on paper are not a difficult load, but IMHO, did benefit from the extra power of the D240.

I had almost pulled the trigger on the D240, when the firmware upgrade came along which turned the D240 into the D250 and, at the same time, the Companion D200 was introduced to form the D400 Monos. I then managed to try a D400 against the D250 and I have to say that, IMHO, the D400 was better - again a much better sense of control, and ease in the presentation of music, but also coupled with a much wider and deeper soundstage and better defined bass. As the cost of the D400 was so close to the D250, the decision to go for the D400 was, as they say, a "no brainer" (the Companion D250 was also introduced to mate with the D250 to make the D800, but this was well out of my price range at the time!).

More recently, I had the opportunity of buying a pre-owned D800, and in demoing it against the D400. Again, with the D800, there was that added sense of speaker control, the feeling that the amps were driving the speakers in a much more relaxed way - the extra watts do make a difference in this respect (the difference between driving a 1200cc car down the motorway at 70mph as compared to a V6 Mercedes Benz perhaps). The overall sense that the soundstage was even wider and deeper. I am not the best and trying to describe any subtle nuances, or differences in sound quality - I leave that to others with better skills than I in that area - but I know what I like, and that is to relax to the music (preferably with a large glass of whiskey, or whisky - I do not discriminate!). I have now also heard the D1000 pro against the D800 (not with my own speakers, I must add) and was very impressed with them. Again the sense of ease, and naturalness, in the presentation of music was the most noticeable aspect, along with a much better defined bass, and an improvement in soundstage width and depth. Instruments seemed to take on a more natural timbre and weight - for eg pianos sounded more like a real pianos - so upgrade here I come!



Anyway, to put an end to my ramblings, and to sum up, I would have been happy to stay with the D400, but the opportunity of the D800 was too good to miss, so ... My experience has shown that there have been definite, to my ears anyway, improvements as you proceed up the Devialet chain but again that is up to the individual to decide after hearing for themselves - if possible that is. I have not heard the D220 pro, or the D440 pro, so can not comment, but my experience with the D1000 pro, would indicate an improvement over their predecessors - again hearing for yourself is always best policy. Here's wishing you well in making a difficult decision

David

[egg1dog]

I think the sweetspot still in the whole range is the D400 I can understand the comments on here when people have upgraded from D400 to D800 they are not overwhelmed with the difference in sound.

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

Agreed ! I would love to own an 800 purely on the build quality and gorgeous remote alone but funds not available just yet !!

[egg1dog]

I think the sweetspot still in the whole range is the D400 I can understand the comments on here when people have upgraded from D400 to D800 they are not overwhelmed with the difference in sound.

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

I have just recently gone from 400 to 800 and can confirm that there was a vast improvement in my system.

David

Hi David,

Could you describe the biggest improvement you noticed over the 400. Do you have a large listening room where the extra power is beneficial ?

[brit]

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

I have just recently gone from 400 to 800 and can confirm that there was a vast improvement in my system.

David

Hi David,

Could you describe the biggest improvement you noticed over the 400. Do you have a large listening room where the extra power is beneficial ?

Hi egg1dog, please see my response at #15 above  .

[NickB]

Just to have the two amps, speakers and a network cable would be the ultimate as far as I'm concerned.

Ah, the elusive dream many of us bought into....

But if beta3 works for you, you can do that now

I think the sweetspot still in the whole range is the D400 I can understand the comments on here when people have upgraded from D400 to D800 they are not overwhelmed with the difference in sound.

Interesting, I have heard precisely the opposite from people going from 400 to 800. One person I sold my 800 to was absolutely amazed at the improvement. 

So my guess is that this is massively speaker/system dependent. 

Guillaume

Thought I would add a comment here as I was the happy recipient of Guillaume's D800. Have to say that the upgrade in clarity, power and grip was astounding to me. The system just sounds more 'real' now. Have now converted 2 of my die hard valve head mates to buy D120's now since listening to my system. I was not expecting the huge difference it made. Not sure why it should be as apparently the electronics are the same but there is something very special happening in those 800 cases.

I am hoping that the 1000 PRO will be just as good a step up in performance as I have mine on order now as well. Watch (or listen) to this space.

[ogs]

I personally would not trust dealers much on this topic - most of them have an incentive to sell off their old Expert range stock as fast as they can before the new versions arrive. In the end it´s basically a gamble. if the upgrade program continues then for many it´s a good deal, but if Devialet actually really shuts down the upgrade system you are left with a device that is no longer part of the developing ecosystem.

This is a really good viewpoint! I have not thought about is this way. Thanks!
May explain the sudden silence from dealers when they got Pros in demo. Trouble selling old demo and stock...