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New WAMM
#11
(27-Dec-2016, 09:40)Duomike Wrote: Have some experience with time alignment. My Duos in stock form are very bad in that regards. Tweeter is way ahead of midrange and bass around 2ms behind the mids. Built some
wooded blocks which I have put on the woofer and put the tweeter on top. This allows me to move tweeter back in small increments. Once properly aligned the large Duos image almost like mini monitors and through a very wide and deep sounstage. Have demoed this to some of my audio buddies. Played some music in aligned position, hit pause, moved tweeter back in its original position and hit play. takes people less than 5 seconds until they say moved them back. Difference is VERY obvious!

Bass similarily important. Often heard comments by people who listened to some a antagardes and noticed bass is lacking behind. They heard the 2ms delay!

Wilson Audio is one of the very few companies who understand the importance of time alignment. No clue why other manufacturers are so ignorant in that regard.

My Goldmund Epilogs are time aligned, and adjustable but I haven't played around with the adjustment, just left it as the dealer set them up almost 20 years ago.
But as I have written before, very few modern recordings are phase coherent so not sure what benefit time aligned speakers can do for them???
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

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#12
It's important that the signal from all drivers arrive at your ear arrive at the same time! This got nothing to do with the phase of the recordings!

If your Goldmunds can be adjusted and your dealer did that 20 years ago he did that for the listening height and distance at that time. If you listen in exactly the same position and never moved the speakers in 20 years you should be fine.

Guess over the years this may have changed and alignment should be adjusted accordingly. Your Goldmunds manual should
contain a chart how to adjust alignment depending on listening distance and height. Check it out
Highly modded avantgarde omega duos, d200, 2009 mac mini with linear ps using black gate caps, d-sonics m3 800 s class d amp to drive the subs of my duos, virtual dynamics master series sc and acrolink power cables, all equipment on silent running basises (sra).
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#13
    I tilt my speakers down to align the mid/woofer to the tweeter.
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, O d'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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#14
(28-Dec-2016, 03:18)Pim van Vliet Wrote: I tilt my speakers down to align the mid/woofer to the tweeter.

This is not really a solution as it may create other problems. Most speaker sound best with ear at tweeter level and if you tilt speakers forward your ears are probably not on tweeter level anymore.
Highly modded avantgarde omega duos, d200, 2009 mac mini with linear ps using black gate caps, d-sonics m3 800 s class d amp to drive the subs of my duos, virtual dynamics master series sc and acrolink power cables, all equipment on silent running basises (sra).
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#15
(28-Dec-2016, 06:30)Duomike Wrote:
(28-Dec-2016, 03:18)Pim van Vliet Wrote: I tilt my speakers down to align the mid/woofer to the tweeter.

This is not really a solution as it may create other problems. Most speaker sound best with ear at tweeter level and if you tilt speakers forward your ears are probably not on tweeter level anymore.

You can't see me in this photo (obviously) so it needs some explaining. The way they are tilted they do point at my head but if you would draw a line the woofer still tilts a little bit forward, thus aligns differently than if they were to stand plumb (on stands) and align the tweeter to my ears.

I've worked the tilt out by ear and would probably tilt them a tad more but then they will fall forward. So for now I sit up straight when I listen (better for my back anyway) I do have the stands and will use them in our new living room but that's been an ongoing project for years now.
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, O d'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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#16
Strangely, when I bought my Devialet quite a big part of it was aesthetics and practicality. My 250Pro is both acoustically and aesthetically pleasing to my wife (very important), and everyone who has heard it is very effusive about the quality of output even if it still is through my old Harlechs which will inevitably be replaced. However, it won't be with WAMM P2s even if I could afford them $685,000) and was offered the chance. They redefine the word 'ugly' and would certainly disgrace any room wasted on hosting them. Keep then in the Lab.
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#17
(28-Dec-2016, 10:41)Gerronwithit Wrote: Strangely, when I bought my Devialet quite a big part of it was aesthetics and practicality. My 250Pro is both acoustically and aesthetically pleasing  to my wife (very important), and everyone who has heard it is very effusive about the quality of output even if it still is through my old Harlechs which will inevitably be replaced. However, it won't be with WAMM P2s even if I could afford them $685,000) and was offered the chance. They redefine the word 'ugly' and would certainly disgrace any room wasted on hosting them. Keep then in the Lab.

I believe those who can afford them would have them on a dedicated listening room. Dim the lights, close your eyes and let the show begin.

I'm with you on the Wilson look. Although a few auditions have made me wonder if I could look past that look. I really likes what I heard. Still, my wife likes the Vivid Giya series more than anything and they're also past my price range... Confused
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, O d'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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#18
(28-Dec-2016, 02:48)Duomike Wrote: It's important that the signal from all drivers arrive at your ear arrive at the same time! This got nothing to do with the phase of the recordings!

Why?

What, other than phase through the crossover, is effected by time alignment of the drivers?
In the Goldmund the tweeter and bass unit of the main speaker are offset by the difference at the speed of sound in air at the crossover frequency.
This is probably sensiblish, but since the 2 units share output over a reasonable frequency range it would be "wrong" for most of the overlap (if it mattered).
The main unit is adjustable on the bass box by a huge amount but probably pointless since at the crossover frequency the wavelength is huge, and adjustment could only have a negligible effect.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

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#19
(28-Dec-2016, 12:58)f1eng Wrote:
(28-Dec-2016, 02:48)Duomike Wrote: It's important that the signal from all drivers arrive at your ear arrive at the same time! This got nothing to do with the phase of the recordings!

Why?

What, other than phase through the crossover, is effected by time alignment of the drivers?
In the Goldmund the tweeter and bass unit of the main speaker are offset by the difference at the speed of sound in air at the crossover frequency.
This is probably sensiblish, but since the 2 units share output over a reasonable frequency range it would be "wrong" for most of the overlap (if it mattered).
The main unit is adjustable on the bass box by a huge amount but probably pointless since at the crossover frequency the wavelength is huge, and adjustment could only have a negligible effect.

You are basically saying that the designer of your speaker and other designer like David Wilson are stupid making the effort to make their speakers adjustable in the time time domain. It's not these designers who are stupid!!
I have absolutely nothing further to say to you!
Highly modded avantgarde omega duos, d200, 2009 mac mini with linear ps using black gate caps, d-sonics m3 800 s class d amp to drive the subs of my duos, virtual dynamics master series sc and acrolink power cables, all equipment on silent running basises (sra).
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#20
(28-Dec-2016, 12:58)f1eng Wrote:
(28-Dec-2016, 02:48)Duomike Wrote: It's important that the signal from all drivers arrive at your ear arrive at the same time! This got nothing to do with the phase of the recordings!

Why?

What, other than phase through the crossover, is effected by time alignment of the drivers?
In the Goldmund the tweeter and bass unit of the main speaker are offset by the difference at the speed of sound in air at the crossover frequency.
This is probably sensiblish, but since the 2 units share output over a reasonable frequency range it would be "wrong" for most of the overlap (if it mattered).
The main unit is adjustable on the bass box by a huge amount but probably pointless since at the crossover frequency the wavelength is huge, and adjustment could only have a negligible effect.
I'm not saying that time alignment matters or not, but if it does, I don't think that the speed of sound matters nor the wavelength..
If we agree that the wide-band point source would be the theoretical ideal, then the corrections between drivers only needs to compensate the fact that the center of emissions of the various drivers is not at the same distance from their mouth and therefore compensation never need to be much more than the difference of depth of the drivers....
That also explains the arc form of the WAMM as well as the Grande Utopia for instance, trying to have the emission center of all the drivers at the same distance from the ear.

Jean-Marie
MacBookPro -> Air -> WiFi -> PLC -> Ethernet -> Devialet 220pro (upgraded from 120) -> AperturA Armonia
France
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