Magico S1 and SAM

[gray]

Johnny Darko mentions that all is not as well as expected with SAM and Magico S1's

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/1...at-rmaf-14

[NickB]

Hi

Have a pair coming for a test soon so will let you know.

Nick

[flohmann]

This squares with my experience with my Magico Q1 speakers. SAM muddied the bass. But I've found that SAM at 10% sounds great (benefits of time alignment without bass bloat).

[gray]

Hi

Have a pair coming for a test soon so will let you know.

Nick

Thanks Nick.
I'd be very interested in your opinion.
I have the Magico S1 and D200.
I do find SAM provides an incremental improvement in the overall musical presentation and a slight increase in bass response. Nothing too drastic but enough for me to prefer SAM on.
Garry

[f1eng]

http://en.devialet.com/speakers/magico/magico-q1

http://en.devialet.com/speakers/magico/magico-s1

Assuming the plots are correct (I have found an error with a different speaker) The S1 is one of the most accurate speakers SAMed so far and needs only a small correction whereas the Q1 bass amplitude is very low without SAM, quite a long way from the target, so there will be a lot more and lower bass with the Q1 with SAM which may well exacerbate bass problems in a room.
If I had Q1s (and I am a big fan) I would do what was necessary to the room to get the full benefit of SAM rather than turn it down, personally.
OTOH that is likely to take a very long time and be a pita, it was for me when I had this listening room built...

[Jean-Marie]

http://en.devialet.com/speakers/magico/magico-q1

http://en.devialet.com/speakers/magico/magico-s1

Assuming the plots are correct (I have found an error with a different speaker) The S1 is one of the most accurate speakers SAMed so far and needs only a small correction whereas the Q1 bass amplitude is very low without SAM, quite a long way from the target, so there will be a lot more and lower bass with the Q1 with SAM which may well exacerbate bass problems in a room.
If I had Q1s (and I am a big fan) I would do what was necessary to the room to get the full benefit of SAM rather than turn it down, personally.
OTOH that is likely to take a very long time and be a pita, it was for me when I had this listening room built...

I agree that it highly depends on the speakers. Fortunately SAM is not a bass boost but an adaptation to the signal to get the precisely desired sound pressure. It is even conceivable that on some speakers presenting a resonance mechanically boost some low frequencies, SAM could even result in what would be perceived as a decrease is Basses, removing the undesirable boosted frequencies.
I don't own S1s but my Armonia share a few common traits with the S1:
* two way speakers
* 7'' bass/medium transducer
* both the tweeter and the 7'' are on the top end and near each other
* both are going fairly low naturally (30 Hz for the S1 vs 33 for the Armonia)

This being said the S1 is a closed design while the Armonia is a ported one.

With SAM on my Armonia, I don't really get a bass boost, although the 32 feet organ pipes are now correctly heard. But my getting a much better accuracy of them.

Best regards,
jean-Marie

[flohmann]

Thanks for the links to the plots, I had not seen those before (and am not entirely sure what they mean, given the lack of scale markings on the axes).

For me, I quite like my Q1s where they are, and it would be a considerable pita to move them around. And, as I don't have a dedicated room, there are certain decor limits on where they can be in the room. :-)

FWIW, I listened to the S1 and Q1 side-by-side when deciding which to buy, and it was clear to me that the Q1 had magic that the S1 couldn't deliver. If only I'd had a SAM-equipped Devialet back then!

[absolutk]

Johnny Darko mentions that all is not as well as expected with SAM and Magico S1's

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/1...at-rmaf-14

Hi Nick,

Just wondering - did you ever get a chance to listen to the S1s with your setup? I'm considering a pair (looks, size, price point, general performance, SAM are all in check). But it's the specific performance I'm most interested in hearing thoughts on. FWIW, I use a pair of Harbeth C7 ES3s, and I'm confident that no SAM is coming for that particular model.

Thanks!

[IanG-UK]

This squares with my experience with my Magico Q1 speakers. SAM muddied the bass. But I've found that SAM at 10% sounds great (benefits of time alignment without bass bloat).

And yet my experience is that the SAM Q1s with Devialet 800 are simply excellent. I barely use the Torus subwoofer now.

My initial experience with the non-SAM Q1, however, was that it would not fill a medium/large size dealer demo room with sound (despite what the reviews say). In my medium/small room it is fine. Better with SAM than without, by a margin.

[iamwappie]

What I wonder; SAM corrects the low frequencies to resemble the exact sound pressure and original bass as was intended. However since at editing times there is no SAM don't we have to assume that there is an over correction at editing times to get woofers to produce what is intended? Could that mean that if SAM is turned on we get too much of the bass response and hence a 100% if always too much? There will probably be some rare recording this will not apply to but for the majority maybe there is something to it.