D200 Mod 2.0.1

[ogs]

The 2x10 pin connector is 2x4 (+ signal left), 2x4 (+ signal right) and 2x2 (signal ground). It's the 'downpipe' from the D-amp above.

gui

So this is actually the speaker output from the D amp? A very critical connection in other words! There is a post describing contact fluid here: http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?t...649#pid649

[thumb5]

The 2x10 pin connector is 2x4 (+ signal left), 2x4 (+ signal right) and 2x2 (signal ground).

Hmmm. Considering that the 2x2 poles of the ground connector presumably have to carry the return current from all 2x8 poles of the left and right speakers outputs I wonder whether that in itself might have some bearing on the improved performance in dual-mono mode, where the relatively higher-resistance ground path won't be used. (Seems a bit far fetched but in the spirit of the thread I'm trying to be open-minded...)

[Pim]

I am interested in the rational behind these modifications, that is what issue exactly are you trying to mitigate?  Please don't take this negatively, I am not dismissing your good work here, I am just trying to understand it.  In fact, I have quite a history of 'modding', although in my case with cars, not electronics.  So I get the pleasure of all this, driving a quick car is fun, but driving a quick car that is quick because you have rebuilt and modified the engine yourself adds an extra level to the joy!  I presume the same thing applies to hifi.

So, back to these pin connectors.  Is the idea here to replace the pin connectors because they are a 'weak link', with the pin itself or the soldered connection of the pin offering higher resistance versus a decent soldered cable?  As it happens, I did experience a car breaking down once.  The fault was with the relay that switched the fuel pump, this had a pin connector that must have been running as a high resistance connection, had been getting very hot and had actually burnt the solder around the connection.  At a glance, this looked like a perfect soldered joint, but looking closely, you could see the solder had burned away from the pin, leaving the pin running through a perfect cylinder of solder, but connecting nowhere by an absolute fraction of a millimetre.  This was a hard fault to find, but was fixed in about 10 minutes once found.  It didn't need large cables to fix though, just decent quality soldering.

So, I can see the issues with pin joints, they are a bit fragile, but I am thinking that if the soldered joints are high quality and executed as they should be, then all should be well.  Is this not correct?  Can it be shown that they offer resistance?  Although noting Antoine's experience with his 250 Pro which required remedial soldering on delivery, maybe Devialet's execution of the soldering of these pin joints is not the best?  I have no idea, I've never ventured inside mine to take a look!

Hello Confused

I think it is not the soldering alone that is the problem here, but the metal (purity) of the pins and the how good the contact is. A connection like this can easily be or become nonlinear and introduce distortion. So it is not just the resistance of a connection but the complex equivalence which includes capacitance, inductance and diode-like properties. Of course if the PCB trace is too thin this can also affect current delivery.
Your car example is good, but here it is either a voltage connection or none.

I can shine a little light on the ring around the pin issue from experience. A long time ago, back in the Netherlands, I worked for an electronics repair shop. I was just a shit kicker picking up and installing the stuff but one of the things I did learn was the 'ring around the pin' problem. It happens mostly on high current items such as transformers and transistors in the power supply of the old TV's (Think 70's-90's). They expand and crimp every time the machine gets turned off and on and over time the solder breaks and the ring appears. It was so common in TV's that even though they could be repairing something completely different in the TV, it was common practice to re-solder those known high current points as a preventative measure. 

To give you an idea of how common it is; I've kept my old Sony TV going for 23 years just by re-soldering those points every two years or so. And even when I threw it out it was still working. I just found out that an outgoing 32" model would just fit in between to cupboards and the new model didn't so I decided to bite the bullet on a flat screen TV before the old girl died.

[ogs]

 The terminals of my speakers are also modded with WBT NextGen and a solid core silver cable from the WBT's to the crossover. This has also a positive effect.

Yes I would hate to loose the guarantee, but you are right; better terminals and better cable help. I keep the dividing network outside of the speaker box. I've connected the woofer via the the original binding post for many years. I finally soldered a high quality cable to the speaker unit and connected it directly to the crossover. Wow what a difference! I guess most of the difference is loosing the cheap binding posts, but the cable also helps.

[Duomike]

To those considering a next step mod to their Ds 

Some of you know already that I did some mods to my D200. Now it was like a splinter in my brain that I really wanted to get rid of these pin-contacts connecting to the binding posts.
So, where to contact cables for speaker binding posts inside the D for best results? I measured for some signal paths and ended soldering directly to the contacts coming from off the digital amp onto the motherboard.
I know it looks like kind of a rude cable hack...but to be honest...it's not my fault Devialet didn't provide a sufficient solder contact for customizing 
Technically the mod is simple. I used 4 cables of the same length, fitted the endings and soldered directly on the solder joints of the board. That's a direct of a signal path as it can be.

And...here is what's very pleasant about the mod.
I would call it a full reversible mod if you're brave enough to first rip the motherboard out of the D. You have to because otherwise you won't get the riserboard off the pin strip that's contacting to the binding posts (I didn't but it would've been better).
You then can get a 4-pin strip for the XLR input, stick it to the outer right pin strip of the motherboard and solder the XLR-input to the 4-pin strip. Everything is reversable then (but good skills are needed with the soldering iron because the contacts at the digital amp strip are very small.

Ok. Why was this splinter in my brain? That's why!
Man, this is kind of an update I couldn't have thought of. The unconscious mind knew hence the splinter but you can't think of something you haven't heard yet.

The sound is sooo much more 3D now. Control over every sound (especially bass) has gained to such an amount I wouldn't believed before. Again it seems as if the power of the D200 doubled. Sure I know it didn't but it feels like. There's so much control on high volumes on the bass and at the same time so sweet the sound of micro details. Never heard such a control of an amp before. Bass is so full - in time - rolling - thrusty - and 'everything'. Never heard a ported bass sounding so precise/in time...similar to a bass in an enclosed chamber.

It's so much better than before when the binding posts were just soldered to the pin strip of the motherboard (...and even that was such an improvement over the original). The pin strip looks a bit like a mess but I had to short out the 7 pins of each speaker contact (7 pins each for L + - R+ -) since it have full output power potential on it. No good.

So, everybody brave enough do this kind of mod. It's really worth. If you own a Dxxx and won't update it's a no brainer because you gain so much in SQ.
Every Pro-Owner having soldering skills and being brave enough can do this mod too as it is full reversible.

Have fun. Any questions/problems...just ask 

gui

p.s. the Ds seem to have so much potential in its design, it's staggering. If I were a real pro in electronics I would rip ALL this pin stripes out of a D and make solid soldering connections from board to board. That would be an immense improvement I bet. I find it annoying that Devialet builds this amp just fast and dirty (yeah, I know the design looks very clean) to save money on the production and throws away the ultimate sound in hifi.

Would you be so kind and send me pics of the mod to my email: mikebier1@yahoo.com
On my iphone can't open hour attachment. thanks, Michael

[pete86]

Sorry if i missed it, but gui would you mind linking to the other mods you have done?

[Vivialet]

the problem with soldering is that you will not be able to get any future upgrade from Devialet. With the current design they can simply swap boards with new ones, if everything is soldered this would not be possible anymore.

[yabaVR]

the problem with soldering is that you will not be able to get any future upgrade from Devialet. With the current design they can simply swap boards with new ones, if everything is soldered this would not be possible anymore.

If you (or a good friend with skills) can do it ones, you can undo it any time getting back to original state and send your D for updating.

The binding posts are just screwed to the chassis (back panel) of the D. So is the XLR socket.
The riserboard connecting to the binding post can be unplugged (motherboard must be removed first from chassis). The XLR socket is a Neutrik you can easily buy online together with a 4pin stripe. Then you solder cables onto this 4pin connector stripe/XLR socket and stick it to the last 4pins where the XLR was connected to through the riserboard. No harm done to the original until yet.

The soldering on the motherboard is only done at the 2x10 pin connector (4 joints). If you are able to do a clean and nice soldering job without burning up the 2x10 connector you can desolder this mod at any time. Maybe a 2h job all in all (removing the motherboard and else) but you can put it to an original state so even Devialet doesn't moan about or even doesn't recognize.

It's different with the IEC because you have to drill 2 small holes (M3 screws) for the new (unfiltered) IEC to be fixed. Else but the holes you even can reverse the IEC mod to original state. Don't know if Devialet would moan about 2 small holes in the back panel...depends.

After getting back the updated D you burn it in for, lets say, 500-1000h. If the new design is stable and no faults occure, you would likely do this mods again since there is a good chance Devialet doesn't change anything in their design.

gui

[warpeon]

YabaVR, I think what u did is very interesting and make sense - it is like the amp's out put is bottlenecked by the riserboard before releasing to the speaker posts. would you mind showing a photo of the riser board? I am thinking may b a more warranty friendly mod is to solder the speaker post to a pin connector cable? And possibly cryo that direct connection mod piece?

[yabaVR]

I know it's hard to not think of meassuring   .

What I want to say is that a Pin Connection and a Direct Wired Connection might meassure nearly the same but only on the meassuring you are used to. You can only meassure values you know of...but I can imagine that 'science' does not have the whole picture yet. I don't have either. But I've got some very good ears...and I trust them 

If your mod is easily audible, id say there's zero chance that the difference can't be measured, and to some precision. No doubt using the same kit Devialet design and test these boards with (else they wouldn't exist or improve since Devialet say they measure only). With the right kit we can measure the weakest analogue signals at a sub atomic level, so I don't think audio bands are untapped scientifically.

Ok so the kit isn't cheap or readily available, and you'd also need a lab, and knowledge and experience - to both take the measurements and interpret the results - but if there's a difference I'm sure some numbers could be put on it.

If it were a huge improvement, I'd actually be tempted, but the ex-scientist in me sort of wants to know what's changed too.

More disappointing is Devialet. If soldering a few wires made it sound a lot better, it seems pretty lazy not to do it on kit that costs as much as it does. Well, at least not doing it because it makes assembly easier is just silly. This isn't mass market electronics.

I'd be worried about warranty. Maybe we could petition Devialet to do a second upgrade scheme, where for £50 they'll take our amps back, solder these connections, and send them back to us under warranty?! Bung in the streamer board at the same time. If we had concrete measurements we might have a chance to persuade them!

GUI, I think you mentioned you might have a modded one in the UK to listen to at some point? Maybe you'll mod a Pro too?

About Devialet
I really think it's all about money for them. And don't think they will change the initial design with pin connections as you can see with the new IEC build into the PROs. It's made to plug onto the motherboard with some kind of spring metal (steel?). It's sad but the circuit design with all the patents they hold is that good that the 'end result' stays good enough to be competitive despite the flaws they incorporated with some other parts in the design. In the end it seem to be a live style product to them.

Ok. Warranty.
That's what all are concerned about. Let's say you have your D about half a year and nothings wrong with it. It would be very unfamiliar that a fault would occur after this period. Sure it can be, but very rarely. Even then it depends on the fact what Devialet would charge you for a repair if it's worth to risk your warranty.

Question is, is the benefit of a mod worth a few hundred bucks of a repair if it ever occurs? That's a very personal question to be solved by oneself's.
For me it's worth. Imagine you get to the performance of the next best D model...and beyond. Because even a 1000Pro is limited to this riserboard and these cheaply binding posts.

Modifying gets you special improvements in sound even a 1000Pro can't have.
I expect a 1000Pro still outperforming a modded D220 but in certain areas of sound performance it has to be second because it can not overcome the flaws in design it has compared to the modded D...see, there is no bypass. The music signal is 'contaminated' when forced to run this 'way'. It's my experience that certain parts (you modify) give (and take away) a special 'signature' to the sound. The sound would get more pure but on the other side every cable/connector or else has it's own 'signature' to the sound and you have to like it (thinkin' of Silver, Rhodium, Gold etc.)

Doing this mods will take AWAY a lot of unwanted 'signature' induced to the sound. The sound of my D200 is now by far cleaner/purer/a lot faster/much more 3D/more emotional/more musical. The experience while listening is much more intense. Be aware if you do this mods you will hear more flaws of recordings, more flaws of your audio chain, more of all the 'negative' experiences some new PRO owner hear because the new PRO is more open and sensitive to external influences and processed faults up and down your audio chain. But if you trimmed your system to be as pure as it can be and you like that sound... that's the way to go.

gui