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Pro 220 or D400
#11
Womaz.

To quote my dear Mr Oscar Wilde, 'The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.'

And with that wisdom out of the way, I would say three things; first, the Pro has a different sound to the Expert series, and I think it is down to much more than an increase in power. More separation and dissection of sounds, to put it most simply. Secondly, the bass on the Pro is unbelievable; the completeness of tonal and textural detail is much better, so if you like bass you can taste, the Pro will deliver. Acoustic guitar also tantilizing. Finally, the treble is less forgiving from the Pro; if there is sensitivity in your room to treble, consider the dual mono.

Please remember, I didn't start with a D200 and I've only had my amp 5 days or so. And, very importantly, I think there is a sharp/ digital edge in my system that the Pro is exposing, so that is not necessarily a fault of the amp... if that fault exists. At this point, I don't think I have any reliable or well-considered position regarding the treble reproduction.

In the long term, you may be better off with a current model of hardware, as I would expect that at some point software upgrades will only apply to the Pro series.

Seriously, I need to spend more time working and less time on this forum.
Damon
W4S Sonos Connect & VPI HW19 mkIII into a D220 Pro, thence made expansive by Lawrence Audio Violin SE speakers, capably carried by Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cable, and juiced by power cords and coax cables in decorator colors
Vancouver, Canada
At the office: NuPrime IDA-16 into Amphion Argon 1, QED cable, ordinary Sonos Connect
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#12
Once again thanks for all the posts. I have sent an initial request off to OAC. I guess if they wont take my 200 as part ex, then its a no go for me.
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#13
(14-Dec-2016, 01:56)Damon Wrote: Womaz.

To quote my dear Mr Oscar Wilde, 'The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.'

And with that wisdom out of the way, I would say three things; first, the Pro has a different sound to the Expert series, and I think it is down to much more than an increase in power. More separation and dissection of sounds, to put it most simply. Secondly, the bass on the Pro is unbelievable; the completeness of tonal and textural detail is much better, so if you like bass you can taste, the Pro will deliver. Acoustic guitar also tantilizing. Finally, the treble is less forgiving from the Pro; if there is sensitivity in your room to treble, consider the dual mono.

Please remember, I didn't start with a D200 and I've only had my amp 5 days or so. And, very importantly, I think there is a sharp/ digital edge in my system that the Pro is exposing, so that is not necessarily a fault of the amp... if that fault exists. At this point, I don't think I have any reliable or well-considered position regarding the treble reproduction.

In the long term, you may be better off with a current model of hardware, as I would expect that at some point software upgrades will only apply to the Pro series.

Seriously, I need to spend more time working and less time on this forum.

Some very good points as always Damon. I would imagine the step up from a 120 to the Pro is massive and it was a no brainer I would imagine. Enjoyed your posts on the other thread.
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#14
It's unfortunate you can't audition both as little people have compared the two directly and opinions seem to differ. Of course without a single doubt an audition would provide you the best answer. We have kerkhoff who prefers the 400 over the 220 but somewhere else on the forum someone wrote that he found the 220 Pro a great equal match for the 400 and chose the 220 Pro (can't find that post). We also know from the poll I started (http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=3761) that at this moment we have 43 to 1 people who prefer the Pro over their previous Expert model though 5 of those 43 have one or more caveats.

We also have a group of around 20 people who clearly and unanimously found the 250 Pro better than the 400. (http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=3752) Why this is significant is that I feel that these people, as Devialet 'outsiders', are likely more objective about it than an owner. Of course the 250 Pro is not a 220 Pro and I wouldn't be able to tell if these two differ in performance much.

I think Damon is right about the digital edge he hears being because of something in his system. The Sonos he uses as a source for example is not really the best out there. I myself would surely not attribute it to the Pro in general and if one could say anything I think it would be that the Pro is incredibly transparant. To me and in my system at least it is; in a a different topic I already wrote: the Pro is more clean, detailed and transparent (in the good way) in the upper mids and highs while at the same time sounding more fluid, refined and musical. In short it's more class A and analog sounding, less digital. No digital edge or brightness, rather the opposite it's rich and perhaps a tad warm sounding.

Good luck with this difficult choice!
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#15
Antoine,

Excellent post above. Thanks also for summarizing my situation so clearly and accurately. And also for your careful summary of other posts and opinions. I am one of the 5 of 43 with a caveat, but I do think it is upstream of the 220 Pro. I've probably posted too many times about the upgrade sound difference, and I want only to add that I don't think my opinion is a final opinion. Last night I asked my wife very directly about her reaction or opinion of the treble sound from the Pro. I pestered her long enough to get more than a one-word answer. She indicated that she noticed an initial sharpness to the D120 (changing from Naim, 20 months ago), but that she does not hear a sharpness in the treble from the D220 Pro; she does hear a change in clarity and says, 'vocals are amazing', but no new high-end edge.

I'm going to try and stay away from the keyboard for a while, as I want to try some alternate connection set-ups, and possibly, some other tweaks or system adjustments.
Damon
W4S Sonos Connect & VPI HW19 mkIII into a D220 Pro, thence made expansive by Lawrence Audio Violin SE speakers, capably carried by Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cable, and juiced by power cords and coax cables in decorator colors
Vancouver, Canada
At the office: NuPrime IDA-16 into Amphion Argon 1, QED cable, ordinary Sonos Connect
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#16
Again thank you for the posts guys.
It is a very difficult decision as there is no way I can audition up here in Newcastle, so I would be buying blind. I do know I love the Devialet sound so I feel comfortable to do this if I decide to change.

I guess its the Financial Adviser in me but my head cant get round that I can get an amp that retailed for about 10k to 11k a few months ago?? Is this what it retailed for. Ok it is second hand but it is only two years old.
Or I can get an amp that currently retails at 7k. This is for roughly the same outlay. Like I say I appreciate it is not that simple, but it is very tempting.

On the other hand some of the posts about a more analogue richer sound of the new Pro upgrade appeals.
I think its a lot to pay for an upgrade if I am honest. Also if somebody told me 6 months ago I could get a D400 fir 6k I would have thought it was a bargain. On the other hand Devialet have to be trusted with the new technology as they have delivered so far for me on the sound quality.

I am a procrastinator by nature so this will have my head in a spin. Big Grin
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#17
Maybe OAC would let you try the 400, with a view to trading your 200 in against it if you liked it? Worth a shot!

Roon lifetime > Mac mini (Core) > Allo DigiOne > BNC ( >AES via Neutrik) > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
 >>> Fingers crossed for a RoonReady Core Infinity and the death of AIR...... here's waiting for October (or November, or December....  Big Grin ) <<<
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#18
I note that OAC also has a D200 for sale. So you could go dual mono without a PX deal, just buy a second master. (Other dealers nearer to Newcastle are also available)

I have to say though, if I was in Womaz's situation, I would find a dealer that could offer at least some kind of demonstration. As an example, I think OAC may still have Sonus Faber Olympica II's in stock, they have a D400 and a 220 Pro. OK, it is an epic drive, but not impossible. Leave at 6 am, have a nice breakfast on route, you would be there before lunch. There is even a reasonably cheap Travel Lodge a couple of miles away. (nicer / more expensive options are also available). Make a weekend of it! A lot of effort maybe, but worth it for the piece of mind that you have made the right choice. I would do it.

By the way, I have not done the 220Pro versus D400 comparison, but if I had to decide right now what I would want to partner SF Olympica II's, I think I'd go with the 220 Pro.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#19
(15-Dec-2016, 15:51)Confused Wrote: I note that OAC also has a D200 for sale. So you could go dual mono without a PX deal, just buy a second master. (Other dealers nearer to Newcastle are also available)

I have to say though, if I was in Womaz's situation, I would find a dealer that could offer at least some kind of demonstration. As an example, I think OAC may still have Sonus Faber Olympica II's in stock, they have a D400 and a 220 Pro. OK, it is an epic drive, but not impossible. Leave at 6 am, have a nice breakfast on route, you would be there before lunch. There is even a reasonably cheap Travel Lodge a couple of miles away. (nicer / more expensive options are also available). Make a weekend of it! A lot of effort maybe, but worth it for the piece of mind that you have made the right choice. I would do it.

By the way, I have not done the 220Pro versus D400 comparison, but if I had to decide right now what I would want to partner SF Olympica II's, I think I'd go with the 220 Pro.

Also worth pointing out that the guys at OAC are very friendly and helpful and would probably part ex your D200 for a D220 if that was your decision so you would not need to be without your D200 whilst it was upgraded.
UK kit - Technics SP10 - Technics EPA-501  - AT33SA - NUC5i3 - Rock - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet 1000Pro - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable (1 metre each side) - Magico S5

Spain kit - NUC5i3 - Linux  - Roonserver - microRendu - LPS1 PSU - Devialet D120 - Ergo IX speakers
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#20
Yes OAC did give me a couple of options with the D400 or 220 Pro.
I guess my decision at this stage was whether to take the plunge on the D400. It seemed a good price and tempted me.
I have probably decided against this as I think the 220 Pro is probably the way to go if I do decide to spend some more cash. I do also think there is no hurry to decide on this. I think the upgrade date will be extended and even if it is not I could go for a new 220 Pro. I may even decide to go for it in next few weeks or so.

I would travel to Oxford if I thought it would be worthwhile but I have learned over last few years that my room has by far the biggest influence on the sound so I am not sure it would help me a great deal.

I have been playing music today as the neighbour went out, and to be honest I am not even sure I need to upgrade. My Devialet still sounds awesome and genuinely every time I get a chance to listen at a decent volume level, I am in awe all over again.

Still pondering though.
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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