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Pro 220 or D400
#31
As a general rule, I would say that when manufacturers introduce a revised version of a product, from version x to version x+1, by and large, the sound changes very little, particularly when the design as a whole is the same. There is very little that is architecturally different from the Dxx to the Dxx Pro line of amplifiers. Some changes here and there, but it's simply not in the cards that the sound will change all that much. There is a general principle of continuity in physics that applies to such things. The gradient of the sound is a smooth function of the design parameters. So, undoubtedly, the sound will be a bit different, but not radically so. 

In my case, this was a great opportunity to buy a new pair of D400s (I ended up buying a quartet!), since it was offered at 50% discount! This made what would have been a prohibitively expensive product merely an expensive (very!) product. I was and am still very happy with my two sets of D400s. One drives a pair of B&W 800 Diamonds, and sounds marvelous. The other drives a pair of Quad ESL 63s and a pair of Quad 57s. The Quads are considerably less efficient than the B&Ws, and here the sound is very enjoyable as well. Overall, the D400s replaced about 6-8 components, including a massive Krell amplifier, a 2 box Mark Levinson preamplifier, a massive 14 tube Audio Research tube phono stage, etc. The proceeds from the sale of these components help defray the costs of the D400s. Best decision I made. The D400s take up one tenth the space, weigh one tenth the weight, and and consume one tenth the power of the components they replaced.
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#32
https://www.oxfordaudio.co.uk/news/Stunn...et-200-400

This gives more food for thought I guess.
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#33
(18-Dec-2016, 14:59)egg1dog Wrote: There is no right or wrong in upgrading or sticking with what you have. I heard the 440 at the Whittlebury show but was difficult to assess in such a large room with unfamiliar Vivid speakers. What does the upgrade bring ? We are all different i like to be challenged when i listen with plenty of snap (the 250 was too refined for my ears) There are so many variables in all our systems. I can change the presentation of my sound in so many ways without spending a penny.....moving my Sasha's a few inches closer to my listening chair reduces the bass output and increases treble attack. In fact I recently had a mains block specially made for my Shunyata power cables and this has tightened up the bass in a way many of the new pro owners have described.

It's a bit hard to explain but it's surely not all about tonal change, dynamics etc. That's just part of the story. The Pro is more transparant so gets out of the way more, there's simply lower analog/digital distortion added. There's no way to tune such an intrinsic value into ones system except through removing/replacing a device that adds that distortion or in digital through means like re-clocking for example.

My list of things I changed and experimented with in 2016 is almost longer than I'd like to admit but there's little that -on it's own- comes close to the improvements I got from the Pro upgrade. The combined changes I made in the 'source part' of my system (microRendu/Mutec/cables/PSU's) do though.

People really need to hear it in their own system/a familiar setting to be able to judge this upgrade.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


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#34
(18-Dec-2016, 14:59)egg1dog Wrote:
(18-Dec-2016, 10:43)kerkhoffd Wrote: I am a bit surprised too on the absoluteness of some reviews. I had kind of made up my mind about upgrading my 200 to 220. I could for the reduced price, but nevertheless decided to compare 200 to 220 and 400 before I made a decision.

As I stated before I found the 220 be 'better' in most ways and different sounding than the 200. But the double mono 400 had many benefits a single 220 unit simply doesn't have. The more difficult your speakers are to drive the more power you will need, but the extra power of a 400/440 also creates an effortlessness that I didn't hear with the single 220. I personally found the 200/400 also more neutral sounding, but that might have been my personal preference, taste and in my setup, speakers etc.

There is no right or wrong in upgrading or sticking with what you have. I heard the 440 at the Whittlebury show but was difficult to assess in such a large room with unfamiliar Vivid speakers. What does the upgrade bring ? We are all different i like to be challenged when i listen with plenty of snap (the 250 was too refined for my ears) There are so many variables in all our systems. I can change the presentation of my sound in so many ways without spending a penny.....moving my Sasha's a few inches closer to my listening chair reduces the bass output and increases treble attack. In fact I recently had a mains block specially made for my Shunyata power cables and this has tightened up the bass in a way many of the new pro owners have described.

One day in the future I may trade in my 400 for the 440 but not before a proper demonstration. So many ways to spend our hard earned cash this is why we love this crazy hobby and Devialet !!

For what it's worth, I listened to the 440 Pro / Vivid demo at Whittlebury and was not impressed at all.  I am as sure as I can be that this was not the fault of the Devialet, or indeed the Vivid G4's it was just a poorly executed demo in what was a very large room.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#35
When I started this thread it was a question I just could not get my head round and the truth is I am now none the wiser.

I tend to take a long time with my upgrade decisions as I always think of them as my last step. So I dwell on the information that this forum provides, but yes a home demo is the only way. I have been given the opportunity to do that but I probably wont take up the offer. You will think I am mad, but I really dont want to spend my time off at xmas demoing hifi equipment. Well not demoing two different set ups and comparing it to my D200 in any case.

Just after starting the thread I became aware of the second hand D400, and this appealed as I thought it would be a bargain, but I overestimated what I would get for my D200, so it became less attractive I guess.

This gives me more time I guess to consider the best way for me. I cant help think that for me with my lively room that the D400 may suit best. In the review I posted above it said the treble was improved considerably in the dual mono set up and it lost a lot of edge. However it may be the case that there will not be a great deal of these available, although of course I just need the 200 companion or an additional 200. Also a lot of my listening now is done late at night with headphones and not sure either the Pro 220 or the D400 would enhance this much

So I guess I have come to the conclusion that there is no hurry to do this upgrade.......unless of course I see a really good deal or decide to take the plunge on the upgrade scheme . As decisive as ever Big Grin Some great help on here as usual guys so thanks again..
Devialet 200 -- Melco N1A-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cable
Auralic Taurus MK2 Headphone Amp -- HifiMan HE1000 Headphones
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#36
(18-Dec-2016, 18:09)Womaz Wrote: Just after starting the thread I became aware of the second hand D400, and this appealed as I thought it would be a bargain, but I overestimated what I would get for my D200, so it became less attractive I guess.

Yep the D200 took a resale kicking.  Thanks Devialet for the 120=200 upgrade pricing.  Angry
Roon->HQPlayer->Air 3.04->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Rega Apheta 2, Rega Aria


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#37
There is one upside DrTone. A second 200 to make a 400 is now also cheaper than it has ever been. For the rest I agree with you.
Devialet 400 - Linn Akurate DS/1 - Audio Physic Virgo 25 Plus - MIT Matrix 28s - AudioQuest Diamond - Crystal Cable Reference Digital - Shunyata Research ΞTRON Alpha Digital and ΞTRON Z PC-10 powercords - Qobuz Sublime
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#38
(18-Dec-2016, 23:28)kerkhoffd Wrote: There is one upside DrTone. A second 200 to make a 400 is now also cheaper than it has ever been. For the rest I agree with you.

True.  Great time to move to a D400.  It wouldn't help my speakers or small room unfortunately.
Roon->HQPlayer->Air 3.04->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Rega Apheta 2, Rega Aria


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#39
(19-Dec-2016, 01:11)Dr Tone Wrote:
(18-Dec-2016, 23:28)kerkhoffd Wrote: There is one upside DrTone. A second 200 to make a 400 is now also cheaper than it has ever been. For the rest I agree with you.

True.  Great time to move to a D400.  It wouldn't help my speakers or small room unfortunately.
Interesting discussion. I'm one of those who has not warmed to the new Pro version. Actually I'm probably the only one who has not. I understand completely why everyone is praising it but thru the Gallo's it lacks the being there in the room with the musicians. The pro line is easier on the ears but has less emotional impact. When I say easy on the ears I am not insinuating that the D250 is hard on the ears, it's just not as laid back as the Pro. The Pro has staging galore, the D250 in my case. has more slam and attack which is what I love about it. For me the only way I'm going to resolve this is to have both and live with them for awhile.
Gallo Ref. 3.1 with 15 ohm 5 watt resistors across the sub in terminals./Hyperion 968 / Devialet 250 Pro / Marantz SA11 s2 / Nordost Heimdall 2 loudspeaker cable, Heimdall 2 digital cable, Heimdall 2 USB cable, Heimdall 2 interconnect, Power cables are all Heimdall 2 and using Nordost Qx4 in line to the Devialet 250 Pro. 
Jrivers for media streaming. Dell 8900 special edition with 250GB SSD, 2TB hard drive with 24GB memory.             
Less is more
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#40
(28-Dec-2016, 20:46)woodstock Wrote:
(19-Dec-2016, 01:11)Dr Tone Wrote:
(18-Dec-2016, 23:28)kerkhoffd Wrote: There is one upside DrTone. A second 200 to make a 400 is now also cheaper than it has ever been. For the rest I agree with you.

True.  Great time to move to a D400.  It wouldn't help my speakers or small room unfortunately.
Interesting discussion. I'm one of those who has not warmed to the new Pro version. Actually I'm probably the only one who has not. I understand completely why everyone is praising it but thru the Gallo's it lacks the being there in the room with the musicians. The pro line is easier on the ears but has less emotional impact. When I say easy on the ears I am not insinuating that the D250 is hard on the ears, it's just not as laid back as the Pro. The Pro has staging galore, the D250 in my case. has more slam and attack which is what I love about it. For me the only way I'm going to resolve this is to have both and live with them for awhile.

Hi Woodstock,

From what you are describing it sounds like the upgrade for me would be in the totally opposite direction, as previously mentioned i like to be challenged when i listen with plenty of bite and snap in the treble. If the pro is easier on the ears then i have just saved myself an awful lot of money and heartache by sticking with my 400. 
Thank you for posting your thoughts and i hope you get the sound you love back very soon.
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