Poll: How forgiving is the Pro series top end?
More forgiving to bright/harsh recordings.
As forgiving to bright/harsh recordings.
Less forgiving to bright/harsh recordings.
[Show Results]
 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pro vs Non-Pro Top End
#31
Thanks guys, that helps.

I used to have a T+A DAC 8 that (at least with my system) was brutally open / transparent. It clearly let one hear the results of garbage in / garbage out. For me, this took some of the fun out of listening because a lot of the stuff I like (yes, out of the 80's Smile ), just wasn't pleasant to listen to for extended periods. It was just to sterile / harsh / emotionless ... It was exactly for that reason, that I purchased my 250. It was / is for me the perfect balance between transparency and emotion.

I guess that is the reason why I have not yet upgraded, since I am concerned that the pro series leans a bit to much in the transparency direction., therefore resulting in a loss of emotion.

PS: Regarding the 80's DSP function, I dug my old Aphex Exciter out of the basement and hooked it up just for fun. Although it is probably creating all kinds of distortion and other bad stuff, it certainly packs a lot of emotion. Smile
D250 Pro | Piega Coax 10.2 | JL Audio SW | QNAP TVS-471 NAS | Win 10 Music PC w HQPlayer & Roon Server
HDPlex 100w PSU | Sonore MicroRendu | Uptone LPS-1 | Mutec MC3+ USB
Trinnov ST-2 HiFi | MX Vinyl | T+A G 2000 R | Woo Audio WA6
Bavaria Germany
Reply
#32
(19-Dec-2016, 10:35)Pim van Vliet Wrote: I haven't exactly gone from Expert to Pro but going from 200 to Od'A has definitely resulted in less sibilance. Whether that is because of going mono or because the amplification method is better I can't say. Let me try to get a grip on this my way:

Less sibilance would mean to me that the amplifier 'rounds things off' a bit. This would then automatically mean it is less transparent to the source. But the Od'A is more resolving so that theory doesn't add up. Unless you can hear more into the music because the sibilance doesn't 'cover it up' (add noise that's more prominent than the music so it takes 'centre stage')

The Od'A also sounds more natural, meaning it adds more body to instruments and voices. This again could be because of the lack of sibilance but it could also be because the 200 was struggling a bit with the C1's. The C1's need power and the 200 just didn't cut it. SAM made a difference in the lower registers but the Od'A doesn't need SAM to almost give the same powerful lows. That probably explains why people with bigger speakers, who would also have bigger amplifiers, didn't notice as much of a difference as those with smaller (lower sensitivity?) speakers.

I did set up my Od'A with the 10.something firmware at first but changed back to 9.something when I made some changes to the config. 10.whatever did sound more forward but I only used it when the amp was brand new and I haven't since so it's hard to tell if that makes a difference. But I do remember people saying 10.whatever was a bit bright when it first came out and was used on Experts only.

Has anyone tried firmware 9 on a Pro? No idea if it works but worth a try.

Having said all this; this afternoon I played a few Bruce Springsteen songs. I turned the bass up by 4 dB and the treble down by 2 dB. It's not ideal but still very enjoyable. I'm no purist; I'm an enjoyist, if there is such a word.

Sibilance is not a pattern by itself. Sibilance is musical information out of phase...or simply put it is a tone stretched to a longer time intervall (digitally that's jitter) than it is meant to be originally.

The Od'A is simply a better amp with more precision/less jitter. It doesn't round up but in contrary puts the musical signal patterns precisely together in 'Time and Space'. Everything is at its right place. Sibilance diminishes into Precision. This extremly contributes to more body and stage. It's the reason why it sounds more natural and why you perceive more dynamics. More 'In Phase Information' in a closer time intervall...simply put that's greater dynamics.

Power really is a very minor issue when you want to define the differences of each D-Model. If you would really measure the power consumption while hearing loud you would be surprised to see the values most times way below 100W often beneath 10W (depending on speaker efficiency). Remember this is dynamic power. I don't know the exact value but a D200 has a dynamic power of approximately more than 2000W I think.

I have only once driven my D200 at a volume it eventually shut off. But that was something like +5.0dB on a WA Sophia 3 (SAM off  Big Grin ) and performing some big China Drums from a CD. That was very loud but it wasn't apparent to us that it was too loud for the D. No distortion...nothing...it just shut off after a few minutes.

Power is just a label on the model until you drive Big speakers in Big rooms or at insane volumes. It's more about how the needed power is provided inside the D...but that's the mod theme  Angel
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar 1.3.14/AO 2.20 b4/jplay 6.2/process lasso 9.0b/fidelizer 7.6 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
Reply
#33
(19-Dec-2016, 12:49)baconbrain Wrote: Thanks guys, that helps.

I used to have a T+A DAC 8 that (at least with my system) was brutally open / transparent. It clearly let one hear the results of garbage in / garbage out. For me, this took some of the fun out of listening because a lot of the stuff I like (yes, out of the 80's Smile ), just wasn't pleasant to listen to for extended periods. It was just to sterile / harsh / emotionless ... It was exactly for that reason, that I purchased my 250. It was / is for me the perfect balance between transparency and emotion.

I guess that is the reason why I have not yet upgraded, since I am concerned that the pro series leans a bit to much in the transparency direction., therefore resulting in a loss of emotion.

PS: Regarding the 80's DSP function, I dug my old Aphex Exciter out of the basement and hooked it up just for fun. Although it is probably creating all kinds of distortion and other bad stuff, it certainly packs a lot of emotion. Smile

Just try to have a listen to it I think you may be surprised though you really wouldn't need to be considering the generally very positive feedback the Pro's get. I think we're, just by discussing a possible 'problem', creating a problem that may not exist, not in general that is. Perhaps better said, these discussions create FUD: fear, uncertainty and doubt. Smile

The Pro to me, while being more transparant, is anything but clinical/sterile. It's very engaging and musical. And I do think I know what you mean, I only need to think back to the time I spend with my integrated Lyngdorf TDAi2200 amp...brrrr...don't know why I thought back then it was an open and transparant sounding amplifier while in hindsight it in fact was cold, thin, sterile and soulless. Smile (not saying this all applies to the T&A btw, I don't know that DAC)
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


Reply
#34
Picking up on Antoine's point above.  I was listening to all sorts of music over the weekend (including 80's fare) and was quite simply enjoying everything I tried.  OK, as ever some recording were clearly better than others, but even the 'bad' ones were still enjoyable to listen to.  Even trying the tracks suggested by Antoine because they highlighted various recording deficiencies, and this by Spotify /AIR, I was still enjoying the music.  Also, as one who does not believe in 'burn in', I am sure the Pro is sounding smoother now than when I first had it.  Maybe it is burn in, maybe it is more psychological, I will never know, not that it really matters now as I am enjoying the Pro so much.  When I auditioned a D800 vs a 1000 Pro back to back, I did not notice one iota of difference in treble prominence, harshness, roll off, bias, level, nothing whatsoever.  The only difference was in detail and resolution.  This is exactly how I see my own Pro now that it has had a decent few hours use on it.

In addition, the results of the 'Do you like the sound quality of the Expert Pro upgrade' poll, do look very convincing. Shy
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
Reply
#35
(19-Dec-2016, 13:05)Antoine Wrote: Just try to have a listen to it I think you may be surprised though you really wouldn't need to be considering the generally very positive feedback the Pro's get. I think we're, just by discussing a possible 'problem', creating a problem that may not exist, not in general that is. Perhaps better said, these discussions create FUD: fear, uncertainty and doubt. Smile

It shouldn't be defined as a problem, I certainly don't consider it as one.  For some it's probably just what they were looking for.  For others it might not fit as well in their system.  The Pro is what it is.

For those concerned but still want to upgrade, do a demo, definitely don't blind upgrade.

The poll was put in place to get a feel from owners on the treble not to cut the Pro upgrade down as having a problem.  The original expert sounds great and there really is no reason for anyone to upgrade if they feel the Pro might move them in a direction they don't want go.
Roon->HQPlayer->Air 3.04->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Rega Apheta 2, Rega Aria


Reply
#36
I've finally voted in my own poll.

After a few weeks letting things settle in, I had to vote for more forgiving.  My hair metal is way more enjoyable with the 220 PRO.  It has a more extended top end but the overall presentation of the amp is just better now and more forgiving to these crappy recordings.
Roon->HQPlayer->Air 3.04->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Rega Apheta 2, Rega Aria


Reply
#37
(13-Feb-2017, 19:16)Dr Tone Wrote: I've finally voted in my own poll.

After a few weeks letting things settle in, I had to vote for more forgiving.  My hair metal is way more enjoyable with the 220 PRO.  It has a more extended top end but the overall presentation of the amp is just better now and more forgiving to these crappy recordings.


Hi dr, did you upgraded to pro220?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply
#38
(13-Feb-2017, 19:35)samsoum Wrote:
(13-Feb-2017, 19:16)Dr Tone Wrote: I've finally voted in my own poll.

After a few weeks letting things settle in, I had to vote for more forgiving.  My hair metal is way more enjoyable with the 220 PRO.  It has a more extended top end but the overall presentation of the amp is just better now and more forgiving to these crappy recordings.


Hi dr, did you upgraded to pro220?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His signature says yes Wink
Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, O d'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)