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Odd Phantom Stereo placement....
#1
My brother was doing some extensive tests with a pair of Gold Phantoms. He was a skeptic before hearing the Phantoms but is very very impressed after extensive test of a wide genre of music.  

Here's an interesting factoid.  He set up the pair on 28" tall stands in parallel, away from side and rear walls.  He felt that the bass was subdued.  Then he pointed the speakers OUTWARDS from him, about 45 degrees.  And the bass came in much stronger and the imaging was still enjoyable.  His claim is that Phantoms in parallel cancels the bass.  I think he is right - I'm trying in my room and getting much more bass. 

Anyone else tried this or have any thoughts?
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#2
I have made various enquiries here and to Devialet about the correct positioning of Phantoms and so far nobody has come up with a definitive answer.
D200, Palmer 2.5 TT/SME V /Lyra Titan. Intel NUC,Roon, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL, Tellurium Black,
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#3
When I tested the gold in the store they were in parallel as well. However I placed them ar about 45 degree in my bedroom because one side would be very close to the wall otherwise. Going to test setting them in parallel and see how the sound changes ^^ (sometimes there's just overly heavy bass)
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#4
I've tried different angles without being able to make my mind in the absence of clear result, being wary of subtle perception variations that affect such a test for a non trained ear that I am. Changing the standard parallel position means one of the three sound producing sides of Phantom is then hidden to my eyes, and it seems to me that just the awareness of this point interferes with my perception.
Devices :
2 Gold Phantoms (previously 2 Silver) + Dialog - Denon DCD-SD/300 -
Project Essential II Digital equipped with Ortofon 2M Blue,
Accessories :
Tree, Cocoon.

Lyon - France
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#5
Use this to calculate:
from the side walls:

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php

I use the 20% into the room for distance from the back wall which is treated with SOUND-ABSORBING DRAPERY

http://acousticsfreq.com/sound-control-a...c-curtain/

Phantoms are slightly toed in.

Works well for me.
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#6
(12-Jan-2017, 09:15)MountainGuy Wrote: My brother was doing some extensive tests with a pair of Gold Phantoms. He was a skeptic before hearing the Phantoms but is very very impressed after extensive test of a wide genre of music.  

Here's an interesting factoid.  He set up the pair on 28" tall stands in parallel, away from side and rear walls.  He felt that the bass was subdued.  Then he pointed the speakers OUTWARDS from him, about 45 degrees.  And the bass came in much stronger and the imaging was still enjoyable.  His claim is that Phantoms in parallel cancels the bass.  I think he is right - I'm trying in my room and getting much more bass. 

Anyone else tried this or have any thoughts?

Since the highs and mids fire forward and the bass fires sideways, it is not surprising that you hear more bass and less mids and high when you angle the phantoms 45° away from you... If you like bass a lot you might as well turn the phantoms toward the rear wall...
It is the first time that I hear someone complain about subdued bass with the phantoms though ! My golds are parallel and  on stands and I hear plenty of bass... Of course if I walk between the speakers or behind them I hear much less highs and mids and much more bass...but the parallel position (or slightly pinched toward you) gives you just the right amount of highs, mids and bass, provided the speakers are not too close to the rear and side walls. 
You get the best aural image when the speakers are firing toward you on an outside terrace (no front or side walls at all). 
In other words, the best room to listen to your system is ...no room at all...if weather permits.[Image: cool.gif]
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#7
(14-Jan-2017, 21:46)eniriop Wrote:
(12-Jan-2017, 09:15)MountainGuy Wrote: My brother was doing some extensive tests with a pair of Gold Phantoms. He was a skeptic before hearing the Phantoms but is very very impressed after extensive test of a wide genre of music.  

Here's an interesting factoid.  He set up the pair on 28" tall stands in parallel, away from side and rear walls.  He felt that the bass was subdued.  Then he pointed the speakers OUTWARDS from him, about 45 degrees.  And the bass came in much stronger and the imaging was still enjoyable.  His claim is that Phantoms in parallel cancels the bass.  I think he is right - I'm trying in my room and getting much more bass. 

Anyone else tried this or have any thoughts?

Since the highs and mids fire forward and the bass fires sideways, it is not surprising that you hear more bass and less mids and high when you angle the phantoms 45° away from you... If you like bass a lot you might as well turn the phantoms toward the rear wall...
It is the first time that I hear someone complain about subdued bass with the phantoms though ! My golds are parallel and  on stands and I hear plenty of bass... Of course if I walk between the speakers or behind them I hear much less highs and mids and much more bass...but the parallel position (or slightly pinched toward you) gives you just the right amount of highs, mids and bass, provided the speakers are not too close to the rear and side walls. 
You get the best aural image when the speakers are firing toward you on an outside terrace (no front or side walls at all). 
In other words, the best room to listen to your system is ...no room at all...if weather permits.[Image: cool.gif]


I completely agree.  When I bring my phantoms outside on my patio, I'm literally floored at the sound stage they create.  And as bonus, the bass is still there!!!  As a side note, I was told by the NYC Devialet store that the phantoms are weather resistant and can be mounted outside permanently.  Have you heard the same?  I am skeptical...
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#8
(19-Jan-2017, 01:18)njaiswal Wrote:
(14-Jan-2017, 21:46)eniriop Wrote:
(12-Jan-2017, 09:15)MountainGuy Wrote: My brother was doing some extensive tests with a pair of Gold Phantoms. He was a skeptic before hearing the Phantoms but is very very impressed after extensive test of a wide genre of music.  

Here's an interesting factoid.  He set up the pair on 28" tall stands in parallel, away from side and rear walls.  He felt that the bass was subdued.  Then he pointed the speakers OUTWARDS from him, about 45 degrees.  And the bass came in much stronger and the imaging was still enjoyable.  His claim is that Phantoms in parallel cancels the bass.  I think he is right - I'm trying in my room and getting much more bass. 

Anyone else tried this or have any thoughts?

Since the highs and mids fire forward and the bass fires sideways, it is not surprising that you hear more bass and less mids and high when you angle the phantoms 45° away from you... If you like bass a lot you might as well turn the phantoms toward the rear wall...
It is the first time that I hear someone complain about subdued bass with the phantoms though ! My golds are parallel and  on stands and I hear plenty of bass... Of course if I walk between the speakers or behind them I hear much less highs and mids and much more bass...but the parallel position (or slightly pinched toward you) gives you just the right amount of highs, mids and bass, provided the speakers are not too close to the rear and side walls. 
You get the best aural image when the speakers are firing toward you on an outside terrace (no front or side walls at all). 
In other words, the best room to listen to your system is ...no room at all...if weather permits.[Image: cool.gif]


I completely agree.  When I bring my phantoms outside on my patio, I'm literally floored at the sound stage they create.  And as bonus, the bass is still there!!!  As a side note, I was told by the NYC Devialet store that the phantoms are weather resistant and can be mounted outside permanently.  Have you heard the same?  I am skeptical...

 Count me SERIOUSLY skeptical on this . If it was weather resistant, I think Devialet would have advertised the fact.
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#9
When you consider that the casing is hermetically sealed for the bass drivers to work properly, it could be true, if the tweeter is waterproof. Having said that, what about the mains inlet? Is that likely to be waterproof?
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South Coast England
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#10
I'm glad you brought this up, MountainGuy, as I thought I was barmy. I had wondered whether my being not so bowled over by 2 Phantoms was due to possible destructive sideways interference effects. There was one time I was just playing one and I thought I had MORE bass! I also felt I was fighting this effect when I once trialed some floorstanding speakers with side-firing bass cones (in a small apartment).
Perhaps this is a factor in different people's Phantom experiences, with the exact dimension of their "listening wall", phantom spacing, and the most common bass frequencies in the music they listen to.
Physicists and Acoustics experts please weigh in!
JRiver v22 >> Windows 10 >> D120 >> Tellurium-Q Black >> PMC Twenty5.23. Two White Phantoms.
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