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Should I upgrade from Naim 272/250dr?
#11
(29-Sep-2017, 20:23)Elztalbiker Wrote: 272/XPS and 300 dr match the Dev 220 expert pro slightly.282/super cap and 300 dr match the 220 distinctly. But 440 beats this combo as well.


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Interesting, but at what price the Naim combos? Certainly more than 220 pro.
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#12
Yep. 272 = 4650 Euro , XPS DR = 5100 Euro, 300 DR = 10000 Euros, 282 = 6000 Euro and Super Cap = 1950 Euro



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#13
Moved from 252/SCDR/250DR to Dev.
After 20yrs of Naim, I fell in love with the Dev sound, dynamics, spatial/presentation, handling of bass, and last (but not least) the simplicity. No PS hum, no cable mess either.
However the Naim combo had more presence (oomph?), and seemed to drive my speakers a lot easier than my original Dev 200. Within a month of trial I switched to 250. And now 250 Pro, I think I am done for a few years.
I don't dig the dual dev setup. It seems to defeat the purpose.
Contrary to the absurd (IMO) preferences on the Naim forum on (a) the Hugo DAC, and (b) the Naca5 cables, I used Weiss DAC and Nordost cables, and definitely felt I had the best Naim could offer at a "reasonable" amount...
Mac Mini + Matrix X-SPDIF2 + Echoes Music 1  |  Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T  ⏵  Devialet Expert 250 Pro  ⏵  Boenicke W5 SE, B&W ASW 608 Sub
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#14
Well, without trying to sound elitist in any way, I came through 30+ years of Naim ownership, culminating on what many would consider (pre-Statement amp) their premier setup, 500 series with NDS network player. Sounded blooming marvellous, albeit mucho £££'s. Two things caused me to switch camps:-
1) I retired early to TRNC (North Cyprus) and the change in lifestyle caused me to question whether I needed 7/8 large black boxes, stacks (literally) of Fraim, a mountain of cables and all the associated hassles of shipping to a country that (wrongly) still is not internationally recognised. This rules out all normal routes of shipping and just one or two companies that can do it via Turkey. Relish the thought I did not.
2) I was vociferous on Naim forum about the archaic software that handles the UPnP way of delivering stored music. I felt the effort put into software development did not match the goodness of their hardware and the price paid. I still don't, even though new iterations of their Naim app have arrived and even though I do not own any Naim streamer now. I won't go on about Roon here, except to say it was and is a game-changer. Totally. It is the way I want to sift through and play my collection and also to discover new routes to similar or associated music/artists/composers/etc.

So the search was on as to what would replace my pretty large Naim system, ideally I wanted one all-in box of very high quality, and one that maybe one-day would give me the Sonos-like way of amalgamating various sources, be it my collection or from streaming suppliers, including internet radio. I saw that Devialet had this smart range and promoted that soon it would have Dialog/Spark control (aargh, as we all know, that's another story).

Living in Jersey at the time, there was no way I could hear Devialet (without travelling hundreds of miles), but after much research, and talking to various people I took a huge punt and bought a 200 with no live audition. Some would say this is crazy, please believe me I had pangs on this on many occasions, I would like to say it was a considered punt and the one-box solution ticked so many boxes (pun intended), it looks spot on in my realms of aesthetics, and suited the new lounge we were planning for our villa.

Having purchased the 200, it was closely followed by Roon, a new software that seemed to be what I dreamed of for controlling streamed music. Not based on one-step-at-time UPnP hierarchal organisation, this was the cross referenced and amalgamated control that I had been waiting for. My library was now 'attached' to the wider world of music from one control point, one app. Fabulous! Can you guess, I rate Roon as the de-facto software now. Better still, I did not have to wait for the, as yet, unfulfilled promise of Dialog/Spark which completely paled into insignificant in light of the brilliant Roon.

Only one hurdle to cross, how to get Roon into my Dev 200, and I tried various routes, settling until recently on the Sonore microRendu. Now that Roon has made connection with Air, even the Rendu has become redundant, finally a true one-box system (I don't count any 'computer' thingy that is, of course, required to run the Roon Core).

So bottom line, do I miss my stupendous Naim system? Well 30 years of building such a system has to count for something, so with a fondness I would have to answer a qualified yes. But times move on and life styles change, and I can honestly, hand on heart say I have no regrets with the Devialet setup I have now. A lot of you have already touched on the sonic reasons, and I can whole-heartedly agree with those reasons. I thoroughly enjoy the music my 220 produces as much as I did with the Naim system, but maybe in a much more relaxed way. A way that does not cause you to fastidiously question each box upgrade, every connection and cable, nothing touching each other, and to a certain extent the upgraditus that Naim is famous for, and to which their whole business model is based upon. I just listen to all the music now, in all the detail, with all the 'PRAT', and think to myself, yes this is good, yes this is very, very good.
Devialet 220 Pro, TQ Black Mains & Ultra Black Speaker Cables, Naim Ovators S600, Sonore microRendu (Roon & HQP) with Uptone JS-2
TRNC (North Cyprus)
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#15
One observation that I would add, call it from many years of experience with Naim systems. Naim sound is coloured, it is really coloured. Of course, it is coloured in a way that many, many people like, in the 'ear of the beholder' so to speak. They go through umpteen iterations of tweaking DSP's etc in each of their boxes until it hits their 'house' sound. So it is with all the renowned box makers.

To my mind Devialet's produce a 'less-coloured' sound, in my ear, something that is more accurate and just as pleasing, but you do have to make sure that what is feeding the Dev is top-notch. Fortunately, top-notch feeds are getting more common, but one still has to do a bit of legwork to ensure you are feeding the Dev with the best possible signal. And then it will sing for you .........
Devialet 220 Pro, TQ Black Mains & Ultra Black Speaker Cables, Naim Ovators S600, Sonore microRendu (Roon & HQP) with Uptone JS-2
TRNC (North Cyprus)
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#16
(30-Sep-2017, 07:01)AllenB Wrote: Well, without trying to sound elitist in any way, I came through 30+ years of Naim ownership, culminating on what many would consider (pre-Statement amp) their premier setup, 500 series with NDS network player. Sounded blooming marvellous, albeit mucho £££'s. Two things caused me to switch camps:-
1) I retired early to TRNC (North Cyprus) and the change in lifestyle caused me to question whether I needed 7/8 large black boxes, stacks (literally) of Fraim, a mountain of cables and all the associated hassles of shipping to a country that (wrongly) still is not internationally recognised. This rules out all normal routes of shipping and just one or two companies that can do it via Turkey. Relish the thought I did not.
2) I was vociferous on Naim forum about the archaic software that handles the UPnP way of delivering stored music. I felt the effort put into software development did not match the goodness of their hardware and the price paid. I still don't, even though new iterations of their Naim app have arrived and even though I do not own any Naim streamer now. I won't go on about Roon here, except to say it was and is a game-changer. Totally. It is the way I want to sift through and play my collection and also to discover new routes to similar or associated music/artists/composers/etc.

So the search was on as to what would replace my pretty large Naim system, ideally I wanted one all-in box of very high quality, and one that maybe one-day would give me the Sonos-like way of amalgamating various sources, be it my collection or from streaming suppliers, including internet radio. I saw that Devialet had this smart range and promoted that soon it would have Dialog/Spark control (aargh, as we all know, that's another story).

Living in Jersey at the time, there was no way I could hear Devialet (without travelling hundreds of miles), but after much research, and talking to various people I took a huge punt and bought a 200 with no live audition. Some would say this is crazy, please believe me I had pangs on this on many occasions, I would like to say it was a considered punt and the one-box solution ticked so many boxes (pun intended), it looks spot on in my realms of aesthetics, and suited the new lounge we were planning for our villa.

Having purchased the 200, it was closely followed by Roon, a new software that seemed to be what I dreamed of for controlling streamed music. Not based on one-step-at-time UPnP hierarchal organisation, this was the cross referenced and amalgamated control that I had been waiting for. My library was now 'attached' to the wider world of music from one control point, one app. Fabulous! Can you guess, I rate Roon as the de-facto software now. Better still, I did not have to wait for the, as yet, unfulfilled promise of Dialog/Spark which completely paled into insignificant in light of the brilliant Roon.

Only one hurdle to cross, how to get Roon into my Dev 200, and I tried various routes, settling until recently on the Sonore microRendu. Now that Roon has made connection with Air, even the Rendu has become redundant, finally a true one-box system (I don't count any 'computer' thingy that is, of course, required to run the Roon Core).

So bottom line, do I miss my stupendous Naim system? Well 30 years of building such a system has to count for something, so with a fondness I would have to answer a qualified yes. But times move on and life styles change, and I can honestly, hand on heart say I have no regrets with the Devialet setup I have now. A lot of you have already touched on the sonic reasons, and I can whole-heartedly agree with those reasons. I thoroughly enjoy the music my 220 produces as much as I did with the Naim system, but maybe in a much more relaxed way. A way that does not cause you to fastidiously question each box upgrade, every connection and cable, nothing touching each other, and to a certain extent the upgraditus that Naim is famous for, and to which their whole business model is based upon. I just listen to all the music now, in all the detail, with all the 'PRAT', and think to myself, yes this is good, yes this is very, very good.

Your last paragraph hits the nail on its head. Brilliant.
Dev 220 Pro/ATC scm40/Sony9000es/Roon/Mac Mini/Anthem 720 AVR/ATC C1 Center/M&k Tri-Pols/Sony U800/Sony 65A1
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#17
Glad I could help a little @jukemark Blush
Devialet 220 Pro, TQ Black Mains & Ultra Black Speaker Cables, Naim Ovators S600, Sonore microRendu (Roon & HQP) with Uptone JS-2
TRNC (North Cyprus)
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#18
(09-Apr-2017, 19:27)Elztalbiker Wrote: Smoother I think no but over all much better sound, deeper and precise bass, wider soundstage, a lot of more details and never ending dynamic.


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As an ex-defector of 282/200/Hicap/NAPSC with NDAC and dCS Debussy DAC.  I'd say the above descriptions fit the reverse, I find upgrading from Naim to the D200 and subsequently D440 is deeper bass, more details, smoother sound and much better soundstage.  Naim was never ever known for their soundstage, with the exception of may be their 500 series or the new Statement series.

Having said that the special Naim flavored "house sound" can be irresistible once you are hooked on it.  But somehow I always felt like something was missing, left me wanting to climb up the Naim ladder.  Subsequently after more than a dozen years with Naim I deviated and went for different options including Octave tube amp, Leben, Vitus and finally Devialet, which turns out to be the most satisfying, I find it consistently more enjoyable than all of the above.
Kondo Overture PM-2i, Weiss DAC502, LP12 Haben, Aro, Keel, Radikal, Urika, EMT JSD6, Phasemation PP-300/T-300, Linn Krystal, Penaudio Serenade Signature

Kondo Operia SPs 2.7, KSL-VzII, Acz-Avocado, etc.


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#19
I am also a Naim escapee, having progressed to 552/300/NDS who enjoys my 1000pro not only for the open, detailed and improved soundstage but as AllanB stated no further obsession with cable dressing and the annual strip down to clean the Naim Fraim.
I have to say to AllaNB, I did enjoy reading some of your posts on the Naim forum, very vociferous indeed?
Cheers Bill.
Devialet 1000pro C1. Aurender N10 Wilson Benesch A.C.T. ONE Evolution P1 Naim headline Naim highcap Sennheiser HD 800 Naim Super Lumina speaker cable. Shunyata Delta EF mains cables. 2 PSI AVAA C20 active acoustic absorbers.
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#20
I always felt my Naim systems I had were always leaving some of the music behind, some detail, something missing, something not quite right. The higher up the range I went the more I noticed what was missing for me. I still have some affection for Naim as it’s a bit of the British hi Fi heritage, but times and tastes move on. I like my simpler Devailet set up and sound now. Lost details are now revealed for me to hear and I feel Devialet has more rhythmic drive than Naim even though,Naim trade on prat.
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