Ethernet vs. USB

[PeterS]

A mac mini connected to a Devialet.

Many threads have covered the direct Ethernet connection, but I've not found any comparison between direct Ethernet and USB.

An advantage of USB could be that there is no AIR in between, hence no drop-outs or white-noise. So, why is not everyone in favor of USB?

[IGuardianI]

I'm looking into this very soon in how this effects sound quality and how they compare to each other. Both connections differ greatly in how they transport data, and other technical stuff I don't understand. This is why you have to see both connections as 2 different solutions. The distance between your source and Devialet will be an important factor, sound quality wise aside, to make your choice between the two connections. If you can choose between them, well go ahead and compare them to each other Let us know about your findings as will I!

[PhilP]

A mac mini connected to a Devialet.

Many threads have covered the direct Ethernet connection, but I've not found any comparison between direct Ethernet and USB.

An advantage of USB could be that there is no AIR in between, hence no drop-outs or white-noise. So, why is not everyone in favor of USB?

A few possible answers:

- not everyone suffers from drop-outs or white noise when using AIR

- USB is inherently more prone to timing issues (jitter) than TCP/IP and there are apparently wide variations in the performance of USB cables - bizarre as this may seem

- USB cable length is restricted to approx 5m and some people need longer runs between their computers and amps.

- most people have home networks and it's fairly simple to run an ethernet cable between the router/switch and the Devialet

[Antoine]

Actually I wrote a number of times about it already and I have seen others doing as well.

I've been using AIR since the introduction of the AIR WiFi module for the original D-Premier. After upgrading my D-Premier to 250 specs I started using the ethernet input since I live in a neighborhood with lots of (>40) competing WiFi hotspots causing drop outs some times, despite all the effort I put in optimizing the WiFi connection.

By logical reasoning, of course by mostly using the convictions I had back then about ethernet being better on paper/in theory, but also after hearing that ethernet was best according to a Dutch dealer whose opinions/experiences I trust, I never even considered testing USB back then. And I didn't until very recently when I couldn't understand why I wasn't getting the same results as others (people on the computeraudiophile/JPlay forums) out of optimizing my PC music server. I can't remember why exactly but at some point I did try USB (probably because I was also playing with the Cubox at time which was connected to the USB input of the 250) and when I did I was very surprised at what I heard, it was actually sounding better than AIR with "merely" a AQ Carbon USB cable! I had actually just bought a 695 euro costing AQ Diamond ethernet cable so you can probably understand the "shock" I had. It all got even better after upgrading the USB cable, injecting clean +5V power to the 250's USB input etc. (see also my systems topic)

Although I agree with PhilP his arguments I now feel that AIR sounds better than USB on a standard 'not optimized' PC/Mac but USB can get you further/give you a better sound quality after optimizing the PC.

See also these copy-pastes from this topic: http://devialetchat.com/Thread-AIR-not-y...22#pid4522

A more general statement, also in response to Guillaume's post above; Kunter wrote it earlier: computer audio is easy, getting great/the best sound from a computer is the hard part. And I fully agree with him. Of course purpose built music playback hardware (like CD players, streamers etc.) usually sounds at it's best out of the box without the (real) need for it's user to tweak and fiddle much.

For anyone exploring or building an -optimised- music server, be it based on Windows or Mac, avoiding AIR and using USB will get you better results. If you use a regular PC/Mac without any tuning/care to playback optimization I still think AIR ethernet is better. WiFi in my opinion should be avoided completely unless you live somewhere without any close neighbors.

O, personal opinion, Mac Mini is relatively expensive and difficult to optimize. I myself would never choose that solution. General, but carefully selected hardware will outperform the Mac mini, with a bigger bang for the buck, and do it easier. If you don't want to chase the best SQ possible and want a drop in, small, esthetically most 'correct' lifestyle kind of product then Mac Mini is your choice but don't expect it to outperform a purpose built streamer like, for example, an Aries or any optimized computer music server.

I'm not sure as to the why myself. It looks like AIR is perfect for non-optimized systems (and give you say 85% regardless of the system used or how it's configured) but can become a bottleneck at a certain point in time when you're making the optimizations. I've only realized/experienced this myself over the last few weeks but was surprised that I wasn't getting the results others (not Devialet users) did and it turned out switching to USB lifted these "restrictions".

A lot is written about why optimizing a PC/Mac helps improve SQ. But no one can really explain this for the full 100%. A lot of it seems to boil down to a need for an optimized power delivery (as clean as possible, with separation of/dedicated power to, for example the power to a SSD or USB interface) and a low latency almost real-time connection to a DAC and a computer that performs the least amount of concurrent tasks and processes. AIR is anything but 'real-time'/low latency so perhaps this is a possible reason. (just a thought)

---

BTW. I should have listened to Hermanh back in June when he wrote this in my systems topic. Turned out he was right and I haven't even used any Paul Pang components except for the Red SATA cable!

http://devialetchat.com/Thread-Antoine-s...607#pid607

Hi Antoine,
Before upgrading your PC components you should check The Paul Pang website.
http://ppastudio.blogspot.tw
Every Paul Pang component I installed had a very big effect on the overall sound of my system. The combined effect is astounding.
The "source first" principle is easely demonstrated with an audio pc, so much to improve in this area.
USB sounds better than ethernet or wifi in my setup.

[MusicLover]

I second Antoine's view.

Although I cannot talk about the Ethernet input, as I have absolutely no experience with it, I recently got to try a used dCS Puccini CD/SACD on my system and impressive as it was for a CD transport, I much rather preferred my optimized laptop using the USB input of the Devialet. Music from the CD rip was far more organic and real.

Nonetheless, I have to give Vincent, from totaldac, a good part of the credit for having come up with such a fantastic USB cable, simply stunning.

Back to James Blunt's "Moon Landing".

Enjoy,


ML

[JohnnySix]

Here's my experiences of data connections, playing from a Synology NAS via a MacMini to a Devialet 120 (in order of preference):

1. Chord SilverPlus USB (£50): Best combination of life, rhythm & tone for me
2. Air/Ethernet cable CAT6 0.5m(direct connection): More organic; softer; relaxing
3. Air/Wifi: Same relaxed sound as Ethernet connection (minus 5% perhaps)

I also tried blind testing SD-card storage against NAS storage using Hi-Res files in JRiver, and to my astonishment I preferred the ones from the remote NAS every time! (more space and note decay). I expected the opposite. What's with that ?!?

[sunny14148]

Hello there, any one know that does Devialet RJ45 can accept I2S standard signal input? thanks.

[Antoine]

I've never seen any mention that it does, and I am afraid it doesn't, but to be sure you could ask Devialet.

[xy1689]

In my system， the wifi is better than ethernet better than usb，I have test the aq diamond usb cable and usb isolator of yiheng and the y head usb cable made by diyer,which is far better than aq diamond.but usb still have the worst performance in my system,i guess the people who don't like rj45 or wifi do not have a great router and great psu for router.... I use the netgear r8000 and the kikusui psu to power the router....

[Confused]

In my system， the wifi is better than ethernet better than usb，I have test the aq diamond usb cable and usb isolator of yiheng and the y head usb cable made by diyer,which is far better than aq diamond.but usb still have the worst performance in my system,i guess the people who don't like rj45 or wifi do not have a great router and great psu for router.... I use the netgear r8000 and the kikusui psu to power the router....

An interesting post, there is much on this forum regarding often very expensive cables and optimising USB etc. But how good can wireless AIR be if fully optimised? After all, a Netgear R8000 is a lot cheaper than many cable options. My router is simply whatever the free 5G thing is that I got with a Virgin Media broadband package, and until now I hadn't given it a moments thought.