Allo - streamers, DACs, bridges etc.

[octaviars]

I found this from Rane regarding AES3 vs. SPDIF and how to go from one to the other and what difference there are.

I think Devialets AES input is transformer coupled hence the possibility to run it with SPDIF directly if I get it right.

Perhaps Devialet also sounds good via a rca input with SPDIF most comparisons today are AIR vs. AES vs. USB. 

http://www.rane.com/note149.html

[GuillaumeB]

I found this from Rane regarding AES3 vs. SPDIF and how to go from one to the other and what difference there are.

I think Devialets AES input is transformer coupled hence the possibility to run it with SPDIF directly if I get it right.

Perhaps Devialet also sounds good via a rca input with SPDIF most comparisons today are AIR vs. AES vs. USB. 

http://www.rane.com/note149.html

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Going back to the S/PDIF v AES debate can I remind everyone that it was Devialet who said that the AES input was qualitatively better than the other inputs when connecting an external renderer or CD player. In the earlier days (up to 2013, so leading up to the launch of the 500?) the S/PDIF to AES link was recommended for linking dual monos, in fact I believe there had been plans to offer this cable with the 500 but in the end it shipped with a Transparent S/PDIF cable.

The reason given was that with the AES port you input on a transformer which allows for greater cable length among other things.

Guillaume

[GuillaumeB]

I have sold my Devialets so that is why I cant try it right now. I am also selling my Focal Sopras and when they are gone a complete TAD system is moving in.

Ooh I almost missed this! 

Please keep us posted on the arrival of this new system.

Guillaume

[octaviars]

I found this from Rane regarding AES3 vs. SPDIF and how to go from one to the other and what difference there are.

I think Devialets AES input is transformer coupled hence the possibility to run it with SPDIF directly if I get it right.

Perhaps Devialet also sounds good via a rca input with SPDIF most comparisons today are AIR vs. AES vs. USB. 

http://www.rane.com/note149.html

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Going back to the S/PDIF v AES debate can I remind everyone that it was Devialet who said that the AES input was qualitatively better than the other inputs when connecting an external renderer or CD player. In the earlier days (up to 2013, so leading up to the launch of the 500?) the S/PDIF to AES link was recommended for linking dual monos, in fact I believe there had been plans to offer this cable with the 500 but in the end it shipped with a Transparent S/PDIF cable.

The reason given was that with the AES port you input on a transformer which allows for greater cable length among other things.

Guillaume

I really cant see how a spdif to AES3 cable could give you the benefit of having longer cables as it has to be AES to AES to get the balanced line and higher voltage that can drive longer cables and reject noise better.

It is the output that states how it will be at the end of the cable not the other way......so a digital RCA to XLR will perhaps be better than RCA to RCA but it is still a SPDIF signal entering a AES input with a transformer. If the AES input is better there must be something in the circuit in the amp that is different between AES and SPDIF handeling. 

Lots of info regarding rca and xlr cables.

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

[octaviars]

I have sold my Devialets so that is why I cant try it right now. I am also selling my Focal Sopras and when they are gone a complete TAD system is moving in.

Ooh I almost missed this! 

Please keep us posted on the arrival of this new system.

Guillaume

I will do that, right in the middle of making the deal with the dealer if we can decide the prices

[GuillaumeB]

I found this from Rane regarding AES3 vs. SPDIF and how to go from one to the other and what difference there are.

I think Devialets AES input is transformer coupled hence the possibility to run it with SPDIF directly if I get it right.

Perhaps Devialet also sounds good via a rca input with SPDIF most comparisons today are AIR vs. AES vs. USB. 

http://www.rane.com/note149.html

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Going back to the S/PDIF v AES debate can I remind everyone that it was Devialet who said that the AES input was qualitatively better than the other inputs when connecting an external renderer or CD player. In the earlier days (up to 2013, so leading up to the launch of the 500?) the S/PDIF to AES link was recommended for linking dual monos, in fact I believe there had been plans to offer this cable with the 500 but in the end it shipped with a Transparent S/PDIF cable.

The reason given was that with the AES port you input on a transformer which allows for greater cable length among other things.

Guillaume

I really cant see how a spdif to AES3 cable could give you the benefit of having longer cables as it has to be AES to AES to get the balanced line and higher voltage that can drive longer cables and reject noise better.

It is the output that states how it will be at the end of the cable not the other way......so a digital RCA to XLR will perhaps be better than RCA to RCA but it is still a SPDIF signal entering a AES input with a transformer. If the AES input is better there must be something in the circuit in the amp that is different between AES and SPDIF handeling. 

Lots of info regarding rca and xlr cables.

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

Here is the email copied and pasted from Devialet:

Thierry Massoubre (Devialet) 
Sep 24 16:09 (CEST) 
Dear Guillaume, 
Thank you very much for your message. The Devialet 500 comes with a daisy chaining cable to link DIG OUT on the master (S/PDIF) to the AES/EBU input on the slave. 
The advantages of such a configuration is that the AES/EBU input is comparatively more qualitative; You iput on a transformer which allows greater cable length. This frees also the PRE OUT sockets on the slave allowing you to connect a pair of headphones for example. 
If you want a wired connection, try to connect to the AES/EBU input on the master. 
Best regards, 
Thierry

[octaviars]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Going back to the S/PDIF v AES debate can I remind everyone that it was Devialet who said that the AES input was qualitatively better than the other inputs when connecting an external renderer or CD player. In the earlier days (up to 2013, so leading up to the launch of the 500?) the S/PDIF to AES link was recommended for linking dual monos, in fact I believe there had been plans to offer this cable with the 500 but in the end it shipped with a Transparent S/PDIF cable.

The reason given was that with the AES port you input on a transformer which allows for greater cable length among other things.

Guillaume

I really cant see how a spdif to AES3 cable could give you the benefit of having longer cables as it has to be AES to AES to get the balanced line and higher voltage that can drive longer cables and reject noise better.

It is the output that states how it will be at the end of the cable not the other way......so a digital RCA to XLR will perhaps be better than RCA to RCA but it is still a SPDIF signal entering a AES input with a transformer. If the AES input is better there must be something in the circuit in the amp that is different between AES and SPDIF handeling. 

Lots of info regarding rca and xlr cables.

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

Here is the email copied and pasted from Devialet:

Thierry Massoubre (Devialet) 
Sep 24 16:09 (CEST) 
Dear Guillaume, 
Thank you very much for your message. The Devialet 500 comes with a daisy chaining cable to link DIG OUT on the master (S/PDIF) to the AES/EBU input on the slave. 
The advantages of such a configuration is that the AES/EBU input is comparatively more qualitative; You iput on a transformer which allows greater cable length. This frees also the PRE OUT sockets on the slave allowing you to connect a pair of headphones for example. 
If you want a wired connection, try to connect to the AES/EBU input on the master. 
Best regards, 
Thierry

I know to little about this but a transformer at the input I cant really see how that affects the length of the cable when the output is still unbalanced and it is the voltage on the output that has to do with the length of the cable that is Ohms law.....

It is possible that the AES input is better but the cable thing I think that is a bit wrong. If they used AES to AES that would be another thing. 

Most AES and SPDIF inputs goes to a recieverchip that handles both AES and SPDIF something like a CS8416.

See pages 49-50 how SPDIF with rca 75 ohm and AES with XLR 110 ohm are connected to the same input chip. I dont know how or what Devialet uses in their amps but I asume it is something like this or perhaps they go straight to the A/D chip.....?

https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&source=we...bxB4XUAY-A

[Hifi_swlon]

Ok, I took the plunge after a bit of deliberation.

Ordered a digiOne, BNC cable, rca adapter, case, and the basic PSU FROM Allo (about £140). (I forgot about the Roon discount code but their customer service was excellent on a previous bit of help I needed, so I'm hoping I might still get it retrospectively )

Then ordered a Pi3 (£33 Amazon), and also a Neutrik NADIT BNC-MX. BNC 75ohm to AES 110 ohm convertor (£37 studio connections).

This was only meant as a 'cheap' temporary solution (depending on what the upcoming Devialet streamer brings, and when.) but also an experiment with spdif/AES into the Devialet instead of USB or Ethernet without investing too much money. I suppose it could be permanent depending how it works out.

Total wasn't 'cheap cheap', but cheap compared to a 5K streamer if that claim holds up!

I also have an eBay 5v Linear from china already that I may try too.

Primarily I just want it to resolve the current issue of not being able to sync my lounge hifi and kitchen speaker, which worked perfectly when I had two RAAT devices previously.

Will report back. Doubt I'll have all the components or time before the weekend at the earliest.

Of course, I'm expecting it to sound pretty much the same as USB and Ethernet as I'm not the greatest at telling these apart. What I do know is my system is never quite as good as I think the kit should be, so there's always hope a change like this makes a difference.

What had me hooked from the start was published measurements, jitter at 0.58 picoseconds and noise at 50uV seem like a good place to start if jitter and noise is what it's all about (and some say it is).

[Hifi_swlon]

The Neutrik and Pi3 are the first to arrive, still waiting on the rest.

The Neutrik's quite big in the flesh. Am sure it's going to poke out past the edge of the case even before the BNC's plugged into it. Not that it matters hugely as a couple of inches of cables are already visible (wrapped in foam cable sheath stuff which disguises them slightly but not perfectly), but still, was hoping for smaller. I also chatted to Allo tech about it and the Devialet. Obviously they don't have much experience specifically, but their take on it is even their relatively cheap BNC cable was tested to be very low jitter, and that they suggest trying the rca adapter first. So thats probably what I'll do, but I have the aes to try later.

[Confused]

This is kind of semi on-topic, not directly related to the Allo, but there are some interesting observations regarding the sound quality of Pi / HiFiBerry type devices and Dutch beer prices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4FU1tqZ...ubs_digest