Is the Phantom still bad for a home theater?

[kmjy]

Ah ok. I did some searching too. Wish there was more info out there (like a price or ETA...)

Knowing that there will eventually be a solution for home theaters makes me want to get a pair for now and wait it out.

Thanks for all the info

Yeah, I agree. I've never heard a single mention of price, or time frame. I always just get the 'we're still working on it'. If I had to estimate I'd say it would be close to the price range of the current Dialogue.

Personally I would get a pair of Gold's and wait it out too, knowing how astonishing it sounds in person. Well worth it. But at the same time, I don't think I could happily recommend it to others to do the same because I literally have NO IDEA when it would launch or even what the time frame is. I would hate to have someone go out and buy them and then they're still waiting 2 years down the line and very unhappy.

For music they're absolutely spectacular too, and I guess while you wait you could still connect them with Optical and get a combined theatre audio stream outputting from them in stereo. But that may not do the job. 

But still, I can't recommend it or not recommend it because I just don't know how long the wait will be. But for all that the Phantom's are I'm sure you'll love them.

[Cyral]

It’s not that the Gold’s don’t compare. It’s literally what you said. They weren’t receiving the proper LFE channel. Which is a problem when it comes to balancing out the overall sound. The highs are too bright because of the same issue. The correct channels aren’t being decoded properly. And rather just becoming a mash of everything.

The Gold’s would truly outperform most Home Cinema setups. Including some (some) actual cinemas. Just depends how it’s being done.

Devialet have been showing Phantom home theatre off for a while and the way they execute it is astonishing. Really takes my breath away. It just takes quite a bit of extra components to do atm which is why it’s been held up. It needs to be practical before release. But once it does launch you’ll have a hard time comparing it to much else.

What they eventually want to do is have something like an all in one Dialogue which will do. Connectivity (Wi-Fi, optical, Bluetooth, HDMI) as well as the processing and decoding of the cinema audio. All channels being send out properly to the intended Phantom. With that all in one unit also doing the processing for each Phantom and setting a ‘maximum’ output level of them so Devialet can remove the current processing method from the Phantom itself (without risk of blowing the speakers by having no SAM real time monitoring enabled) and have the all in one unit do that processing but in a way that it’s pre-determined so we can have 0 sync issues and still have a safe and well performing system.

In time. It’ll come. In time.


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Yes, I agree that having the channels being decoded would surely help. But even when the channels are decoded properly, they will not hit subwoofer levels of bass, at high volume they won't be able to produce hz in the lower freq range with authority.

The high's were also too bright for me with music, so I think that isn't a fair argument when talking about home cinema performance.

Comparing the Phantom Golds with a subwoofer set up is comparing apples and oranges. However, I must say there's no alternative this small with the amount of bass the Phantoms can produce. (for music absolutely plenty)

I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable.

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


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Think it all depends on your reference. 

But saying you can compare them to 17 inch drivers you find in subwoofers, only gives unrealistic expectations. 

Yes, when you compare them to ''subwoofers'' you get with a samsung home cinema set, then yes, they sound better. But once you have a proper subwoofer set up, they don't compare. For instance the golds drop off to about 45-50 hz at 108db. Also I've tested my Phantom Golds with a SPL meter to see what DB they could produce in the 20-30hz range. The highest output I got in that range ( running test tones) was about 90 db. Even with the (in)''famous'' bassotronics track, they don't produce that much impact when I compared them to my subwoofers. But once again, you can't compare them, while they do ''sound'' low, they don't have the visceral impact of a decent subwoofer.

They are a compromise in the bass department for home cinema, but I think the target audience for the Phantoms, are willing to make this  compromise for the form factor you get in return. There simply is no alternative this small.

[kmjy]

Yes, I agree that having the channels being decoded would surely help. But even when the channels are decoded properly, they will not hit subwoofer levels of bass, at high volume they won't be able to produce hz in the lower freq range with authority.

The high's were also too bright for me with music, so I think that isn't a fair argument when talking about home cinema performance.

Comparing the Phantom Golds with a subwoofer set up is comparing apples and oranges. However, I must say there's no alternative this small with the amount of bass the Phantoms can produce. (for music absolutely plenty)

I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable.

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Think it all depends on your reference. 

But saying you can compare them to 17 inch drivers you find in subwoofers, only gives unrealistic expectations. 

Yes, when you compare them to ''subwoofers'' you get with a samsung home cinema set, then yes, they sound better. But once you have a proper subwoofer set up, they don't compare. For instance the golds drop off to about 45-50 hz at 108db. Also I've tested my Phantom Golds with a SPL meter to see what DB they could produce in the 20-30hz range. The highest output I got in that range ( running test tones) was about 90 db. Even with the (in)''famous'' bassotronics track, they don't produce that much impact when I compared them to my subwoofers. But once again, you can't compare them, while they do ''sound'' low, they don't have the visceral impact of a decent subwoofer.

They are a compromise in the bass department for home cinema, but I think the target audience for the Phantoms, are willing to make this  compromise for the form factor you get in return. There simply is no alternative this small.

Hmm... I’ve gotten much better results from them in the past. But that’s definitely interesting info. But I don’t expect many people blasting two Gold’s past 108dB in their home. That’s absolutely crazy volume for that space. I’m certain the Gold’s have a better output at those volumes. They increased the excursions of the Gold’s considerably compared to the White’s and Silvers and they actually did drop off at those frequencies at their max volume.

In my experience they do stack up to a real subwoofer. 100%. And 20-30Hz at 90dB is way better than the older Phantom’s. That was my disappointment with them, but now we can have actually decent volume with the whole range.

And I have also felt the impact of the 16Hz output in the past too. I feel like it’s dependent on the environment because I’ve certainly gotten some incredible performance out of the really low end range even at maximum volume. Definitely felt it. Definitely heard it.


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[Cyral]

I’ve watched movies with a Phantom cinema setup and it absolutely does produce the lower frequencies with as much, if not more authority than a subwoofer. I picked my own movies and damn was it impressive. People say the Phantoms can’t hit even a solid 20Hz at higher volume levels but I’m not sure on what basis. In all my experiences they play from 20 all the way up very very impactfully. I’ve had my White Phantom’s vibrating the house on those lower frequencies. And even the ones I can’t hear. Can feel it. But I do suppose it depends on the setup. And environment. And locations and all of that.

For cinema each Phantom is delivering the equivalent of two subwoofers worth of bass (and the reason I say subwoofers is because they are actually subwoofers, there’s some really advanced technology going on behind those domes), and those drivers together are heading up past 17” in diameter. You add a second or third or fourth Phantom and you’re essentially adding another 2, 4 or 6 subwoofers if you wanna look at it that way. Sounds outrageous but really adds an impact. The setup I got the privilege to mess with was 7 Silver Phantom’s. Three front. Two side. Two back. Setup with Devialet’s method. It was breathtaking. Gold’s being twice as powerful as Silvers, having 25% more woofer excursion, and a more advanced range of output I would think even a four Gold setup would be incredible. Capable of those lows. No problems. I think in my listening environment two would be fine and I’d be more than happy with the bass output. But diversity in preference is what makes this field so enjoyable.

The highness is fair. Although in my experience the environment and positioning makes a big impact on how Phantom’s sound. A very very big impact.

The thing about these Phantom’s is that unless they’re being fed the absolute right source they’re not putting out their full potential of sound. With the right source that bass will thicken up incredibly. You may notice with a dedicated LFE track heading into Phantom the range of bass may increase. As well as the depth and thickness. And authority of sound. I’ve noticed this in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Think it all depends on your reference. 

But saying you can compare them to 17 inch drivers you find in subwoofers, only gives unrealistic expectations. 

Yes, when you compare them to ''subwoofers'' you get with a samsung home cinema set, then yes, they sound better. But once you have a proper subwoofer set up, they don't compare. For instance the golds drop off to about 45-50 hz at 108db. Also I've tested my Phantom Golds with a SPL meter to see what DB they could produce in the 20-30hz range. The highest output I got in that range ( running test tones) was about 90 db. Even with the (in)''famous'' bassotronics track, they don't produce that much impact when I compared them to my subwoofers. But once again, you can't compare them, while they do ''sound'' low, they don't have the visceral impact of a decent subwoofer.

They are a compromise in the bass department for home cinema, but I think the target audience for the Phantoms, are willing to make this  compromise for the form factor you get in return. There simply is no alternative this small.

Hmm... I’ve gotten much better results from them in the past. But that’s definitely interesting info. But I don’t expect many people blasting two Gold’s past 108dB in their home. That’s absolutely crazy volume for that space. I’m certain the Gold’s have a better output at those volumes. They increased the excursions of the Gold’s considerably compared to the White’s and Silvers and they actually did drop off at those frequencies at their max volume.

In my experience they do stack up to a real subwoofer. 100%. And 20-30Hz at 90dB is way better than the older Phantom’s. That was my disappointment with them, but now we can have actually decent volume with the whole range.

And I have also felt the impact of the 16Hz output in the past too. I feel like it’s dependent on the environment because I’ve certainly gotten some incredible performance out of the really low end range even at maximum volume. Definitely felt it. Definitely heard it.


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In my situation they were not corner loaded though. I'am sure you get more bass output when you put them in a corner. However, for the sound quality, the sound was much better when I had them more in the room. 

Also, sound is subjective, what might be good ''subwoofer'' performance for one person, someone else might be a bit disappointed.

[kmjy]

Think it all depends on your reference. 

But saying you can compare them to 17 inch drivers you find in subwoofers, only gives unrealistic expectations. 

Yes, when you compare them to ''subwoofers'' you get with a samsung home cinema set, then yes, they sound better. But once you have a proper subwoofer set up, they don't compare. For instance the golds drop off to about 45-50 hz at 108db. Also I've tested my Phantom Golds with a SPL meter to see what DB they could produce in the 20-30hz range. The highest output I got in that range ( running test tones) was about 90 db. Even with the (in)''famous'' bassotronics track, they don't produce that much impact when I compared them to my subwoofers. But once again, you can't compare them, while they do ''sound'' low, they don't have the visceral impact of a decent subwoofer.

They are a compromise in the bass department for home cinema, but I think the target audience for the Phantoms, are willing to make this  compromise for the form factor you get in return. There simply is no alternative this small.

Hmm... I’ve gotten much better results from them in the past. But that’s definitely interesting info. But I don’t expect many people blasting two Gold’s past 108dB in their home. That’s absolutely crazy volume for that space. I’m certain the Gold’s have a better output at those volumes. They increased the excursions of the Gold’s considerably compared to the White’s and Silvers and they actually did drop off at those frequencies at their max volume.

In my experience they do stack up to a real subwoofer. 100%. And 20-30Hz at 90dB is way better than the older Phantom’s. That was my disappointment with them, but now we can have actually decent volume with the whole range.

And I have also felt the impact of the 16Hz output in the past too. I feel like it’s dependent on the environment because I’ve certainly gotten some incredible performance out of the really low end range even at maximum volume. Definitely felt it. Definitely heard it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In my situation they were not corner loaded though. I'am sure you get more bass output when you put them in a corner. However, for the sound quality, the sound was much better when I had them more in the room. 

Also, sound is subjective, what might be good ''subwoofer'' performance for one person, someone else might be a bit disappointed.

Yeah absolutely, I’ve tried them in all kinds of places. I much prefer them close to a wall or somewhat cornered. But I agree it’s more open when they’re placed correctly. But you’ll achieve different bass output depending on the stand you pick and how big the bottom is that the Phantom sits on. I’ve noticed a beefier stand (surface that the unit sits on) allows for more thickening of the bass. But some may not like that. Personally I like as much bass as I can get so I don’t mind placing it near a wall to amplify that.

But I agree. But I think they perform very comparable to proper subwoofers. Especially in a pair. Although I have occasionally heard of a pair cancelling each other out depending on positioning. They should be placed facing outwards. Left facing out to the left. And right to the right. Only a little bit. But it helps counter bass cancelling from the two woofers facing each other.


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[Leofeo79]

Hello to all. Is there any update when will be Dolby Digital Add to Phantom?

[Castle]

The Phantom Premiers don't do it without the use of a Dante solution (Ethernet to toslink).

But I just visited the Devialet stand at ISE and they have a 5.5 surround setup with the reactors.
They only have a power and a Ethernet cable connected to them. They are running the "custom" firmware for commercial use and then support the Dante protocol natively. If you look at the Devialet website under reactor custom you see the specs.

The sound (stage) was impressive, even on an open stand on a crowded fare.

[booshtukka]

That's great - but why show more vapourware? Such a frustrating company. Always showing off, saying big things, arranging big setups, delivering special recordings, requiring special firmware, but never actually putting things promised 4 years ago into the hands of customers.

[Snoopy8]

That's great - but why show more vapourware? Such a frustrating company. Always showing off, saying big things, arranging big setups, delivering special recordings, requiring special firmware, but never actually putting things promised 4 years ago into the hands of customers.

I understand your frustration.

But in this instance, it is not vapour ware and Devialet can already deliver audio for home theatre using Dante technology using external connectors.  These new custom Reactors have Dante technology built in.

[booshtukka]

I just saw the article! Interesting. Does it mean I'd have to replace the Reactors? There's no actual info available from Devialet yet?