DSD via Roon/AIR - Unsupported but Works

[ismarketing]

I had an interesting exchange with Customer Support.  I'm feeding my Dev 120 via Roon Air a upsampled DSD 64 signal on the Ethernet input.  It works and sounds great, and I've yet to hear a dropout or odd noise.

I was looking at the the Dev site and noticed there was no mention of support for DSD on the Ethernet input for Expert or Pro models.  I wrote and asked, and here's what came back:

"DSD is supported over PCM on every digital input except (emphasis mine) Air : WiFi and Ethernet. 

Nevertheless, it may also work on Ethernet if network is strong (low latency and no loss of packets) if direct access is selected.   It won't work over WiFi. The fact that it does work on your network is not an indication of DoP working on all Ethernet networks."

Seems like a missed selling point for people with wired networks.  Anybody else making this work/enjoying DSD via Roon/Air?

[actx76092]

I had an interesting exchange with Customer Support.  I'm feeding my Dev 120 via Roon Air a upsampled DSD 64 signal on the Ethernet input.  It works and sounds great, and I've yet to hear a dropout or odd noise.

I was looking at the the Dev site and noticed there was no mention of support for DSD on the Ethernet input for Expert or Pro models.  I wrote and asked, and here's what came back:

"DSD is supported over PCM on every digital input except (emphasis mine) Air : WiFi and Ethernet. 

Nevertheless, it may also work on Ethernet if network is strong (low latency and no loss of packets) if direct access is selected.   It won't work over WiFi. The fact that it does work on your network is not an indication of DoP working on all Ethernet networks."

Seems like a missed selling point for people with wired networks.  Anybody else making this work/enjoying DSD via Roon/Air?

I have used this since day 1 a few years ago.. I wasn't even aware it wasn't supported until a year or so ago. . .
I continue to believe that most/all issues that people have had with AIR are network related. Not that I know why mine always works as there is nothing unique or fancy about it but.. it has always worked.

[Hifi_swlon]

I think they changed it to unsupported when they broke it on the Mac and couldn't get it to work any more with the latest AIR driver.

It obviously is supported, as previously it was simply stated as 'every digital input' or something similar, and Roon can do it fine over AIR Ethernet. What would have been the point of Devialet making a big thing about adding DSD and their MAT algorithm if you couldn't actually send DSD over their own driver?

It's all just a bit embarrassing for Devialet. Maybe after so much BS you just sort of forget what's true and what's been made up to cover something.....

[actx76092]

It is obviously not supported.  Supported and working are two different things. From the devialet website:

WI-FI
2.4GHz 802.11 b/g/n Wi-Fi input for the Devialet AIR universal streamer
Supported formats: 16-bit/44.1 kHz PCM to 24-bit/192 kHz PCM
ETHERNET RJ45
RJ45 10/100 Mbps Ethernet input for the Devialet AIR universal streamer
Supported formats: 16-bit/44.1 kHz PCM to 24-bit/192 kHz PCM

[Hifi_swlon]

Whatever

This is what they announced.

"DSD64 (DSD 1x) is now supported on USB and every high speed PCM digital input, through DoP v1.0 (DSD over PCM)"

Note, it doesn't say "with the exception of via our AIR driver"

Also, if it's not supported why are the specs part of AIR and available for Roon to integrate?

The fact that the website omits the feature, is obviously since they broke it in the latest AIR for Macs.

[ismarketing]

I'm just glad that it works and sounds so good.  I've put my Micro Rendu up for sale.

[marcor]

Works for me with Roon AIR integration on Mac, but before that it never worked with Roon + AIR driver.

[Jean-Marie]

Whatever

This is what they announced.

"DSD64 (DSD 1x) is now supported on USB and every high speed PCM digital input, through DoP v1.0 (DSD over PCM)"

Note, it doesn't say "with the exception of via our AIR driver"

Also, if it's not supported why are the specs part of AIR and available for Roon to integrate?

The fact that the website omits the feature, is obviously since they broke it in the latest AIR for Macs.

From what I can guess, the lack of support for DSD on the Mac for the AIR driver from Devialet was not coming from a limitation of the AIR protocol itself but from the core audio software subsystem of the Mac itself.

Version 2 of AIR was having a kernel extension and this is what was causing a lot of the dreaded drops and white noise. Air 3, went to a full user space solution, but it then had to go through Core Audio which to my knowledge does not support DSD.

Roon is in a different situation because they are both the player and the AIR driver, therefore they don't need, and they don't use, any of the OS audio system, they just read the file and do all the treatments inside their application until they get the packet required for AIR to be shipped to the Deviate. This leaves much more flexibility than when you need to conform to the Sound API of Mac OS which is known to have problems.

For what it is worth, I have found complains from professional customers using high end audio gears either through USB or Firewire logging bugs against apple for the exact same problem, and obviously the problem remained intact since.

My two cents.

Jean-Marie

[Hifi_swlon]

From what I can guess....
....
For what it is worth, I have found complains from professional customers using high end audio gears either through USB or Firewire logging bugs against apple for the exact same problem, and obviously the problem remained intact since.

Sorry Jean-Marie, I can no longer take your 'guesses' and Devialet defence at face value. I don't mean that offensively in any way, I just can't take this impartiality seriously since your disclosure - although I do very much enjoy your posts in general.

I don't believe the issue is with Core Audio. DSD over PCM is essentially PCM. But in any case, as with anything software development-wise, if the OS you're writing for has bugs or limitations, it's up to the developer to work around them. Not just go silent on the issue and pretend the feature is now somehow 'unsupported'

I'll just be glad when we can move away from Devialet's software development. A RoonReady Core Infinity board will be the best gift Devialet could ever have given us.