Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The master companion digital link revisited
#1
As some of you will know I have spent the past few weeks testing different cables between Master and Companion. 

The purpose of the tests was twofold really: 

1) Shunyata Research asked me to evaluate a number of prototype and production digital cables in my own system and against some of my other references, the cables were a mix of SPDIF and "hybrid" RCA/AES

2) this seemed like an ideal opportunity to revisit the RCA/RCA v RCA/AES connection method

My initial expectation had been that a half decent hybrid cable would mount a serious challenge to my trusted Transparent Ref XL SPDIF. One of the first tests that I conducted was a comparison between Transparent and Audioprana. In comparison to the Transparent the Audioprana seemed bright and unrefined. This was literally a first impression and as I left the Audioprana in my system for a day or two I forgot about the Transparent and perhaps just got used to the Audioprana. In fact I rather liked it. Going back to the Transparent was interesting since each time I had forgotten quite how good it was, it was almost as though I had to be reminded. There was no denying it, the Transparent Ref XL was better. On some occasions I found it a little difficult to discern differences, and I found this to be the case particularly if I tried too hard or if I just wasn't in the mood. On one day I literally spent 4 hours comparing the the Audioprana to the Transparent. Literally the same piece of music going backwards and forth. It was enough to drive me insane.

Frustratingly the first batch of Shunyata hybrid cables did not fare much better. The Transparent still reigned supreme.

Following feedback given to Caelin, a few weeks later another pair of Shunyata hybrids (in Alpha and Sigma versions) arrived with a production ready Alpha SPDIF.

I spent time with each cable in my system without A/Bing, just allowing each cable to settle and my ears to become accustomed to any changes that each brought. So a few days were spent with the Alpha SPDIF. Then I would switch to the Transparent. Then I'd change the SD card and spend a few days with the hybrids. You get the picture...

Each change had an effect but it got to the point where I just wasn't sure which one I preferred. I was going round in circles. At which point I called Rufus to the rescue. I was building up a picture in my mind of what each cable could do but I wasn't sure which I preferred. Or rather there was some cognitive dissonance going on: I was secretly finding the SPDIF connection better when based on everything I had read on here it should be the hybrid connection that was best. After all even Devialet were at one point recommending this connection method, with diagrams on their website showing how to assemble an RCA/AES cable. It made sense: the presence of a transformer behind the AES port would ensure a better signal, qualitatively speaking. Indeed I had always found the AES port on the master the best way of feeding the Devialet, even better than AIR. And Shunyata were sending me their best SOTA hybrid cables that should in theory thrash the Transparent SPDIF or Alpha SPDIF. But this wasn't happening...

So Rufus arrived here a couple of days ago. I had to bribe him with pork pies, the really nice big chunky ones you get at a farm shop, but it was worth it since his help was invaluable. 

We found an excellent piece of music to base the tests on. Thelonious Monk's "Les Liaisons Dangereuses 1960". This recording was recently discovered in someone's attic, and is made up of two volumes both cut in a single day in New York in 1959. The track we had on repeat was "Light Blue" and a second version of the same track: basically a 14 minute in-process recording with live dialogue. This track is excellent: most of the percussion comes through the right channel (i.e. the Companion!) and there is fantastic interplay between the musicians not to mention that all important piano which is always very challenging to reproduce naturally. 

Rufus even suggested we try using the balance controls to send everything to the Companion. This forced us into an intense monitor listening type situation. Very interesting to say the least, amazingly even with just one channel (the right hand side) the sound was very full and dispersed well in the room. But it gave us added focus on the micro details.

I donned the white gloves and switched cables rapidly and Rufus would focus on different areas of sound (depth of sound, timbre of the piano, weight of the drum etc), trying not to tilt his head too much or even breathe between switches. Occasionally we would have a longer break when I would have to change the config, but eventually I got more and more efficient at this and we were able to make fairly rapid changes between SPDIF and hybrid.

to be continued.... Tongue
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
Reply
#2
Sounds like you & Rufus had some fun time! Smile

Really looking forward to your listening impressions on each cable and SPDIF vs. hybrid.
Bluesound Node > Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 > Genelec 8351B & 7360A
Devialet 1000 Pro
Bluesound Node 2i > Genelec 8330
Tampere, Finland
Reply
#3
The pork pie strategy (and wine) worked! Thanks Guillaume!

I'll add my impressions of each cable.

The cables we tested were:
Audioquest Carbon (supplied with the O'dA).
Audioprana Hybrid
Transparent Reference XL
Shunyata Alpha S/PDIF
Shunyata Alpha Hybrid S/PDIF - AES
Shunyata Sigma Hybrid S/PDIF - AES

Now we spent a few hours evaluating these cables.    I'll first post our overall findings:

First off - it was much closer than either of us thought it would be.  A few years back when Guillaume first tried the Transparent Ref XL vs the basic cable that came with his D800, the difference was very significant and easy to spot.  It seems as if Devialet have improved the master <-> companion link which has almost removed the effect cause by the interconnect.

My impression generally of straight S/PDIF cables vs the hybrids was that the hybrids were slightly 'soft' in the companion channel. It was almost as if the volume was a tiny bit lower. But this is absurd - the communication is digital isn't it?  After a  while I started to feel this 'softness' was maybe (?) a slight deficiency in separation compared with the S/PDIF cables.    One hybrid cable seemed to break this rule though and that was the Sigma hybrid. It seemed well balanced left-to-right.

For each cable, this was my general impression.
Audioquest Carbon (supplied with O'dA).  This was a new and unused cable so perhaps a little unfair. It was fairly clearly the worst of the bunch. Separation/soundstage was a bit of a mush in comparison.

Audioprana hybrid - this was surprisingly good. Considering the price compared with the others (the Transparent Ref XL is maybe 10 times the price?) I'd say on a pure cost to performance basis this could well be the winner. It did sound a little soft on the companion side though and I thought it was a little crude rendering dynamics - such as loud piano stabs. It was a bit unrefined in this case.  Dynamically it was perhaps a little flat too. Very easy to live with though.

Transparent Ref XL - initially both of us felt this was probably the best cable, but again it just seemed a little quiet on the companion side (to me anyway). It seemed to have that depth that Transparent cables typically give, and a nice musicality, but lacking a little detail.

Shunyata Alpha S/PDIF - this was well-balanced in comparison. It seemed quite lively and bouncy. The detail is probably the best of the lot.  

Shunyata Alpha S/PDIF - AES hybrid  -  compared with the straight S/PDIF this again seemed a little quiet on the companion side.  In terms of detail it was excellent,

Shunyata Sigma S/PDIF - AES hybrid - this cable I felt was possibly overall the best of the lot. The refinement was clear and it had a greater focus to the instruments (possibly the TAP module doing its thing).  It also rather strangely didn't seem to have the 'softness' in the companion side of the other hybrid cables.  It was perhaps a little less lively compared with the Alpha S/PDIF but possibly sonically more accurate.


My personal tastes favoured the Sigma hybrid and the Alpha S/PDIF. The S/PDIF over hybrid generally just seemed a little more 'right'. I can't quite put my finger on it but I came away thinking perhaps the hybrid idea is a little flawed.   I strongly suspect a Sigma S/PDIF would be a killer.

Probably the most important conclusion is how close everything is though. Devialet seem to have really reduced the importance of the link cable quality.
Reply
#4
Perfect summary from Rufus really.

Here is my summary of the findings:

1) the new OdA/PRO architecture is far less sensitive to the link cable. When I carried out similar experiments a few years ago on my D800 the differences between link cables were stark. Way way more dramatic.

2) SPDIF seems to be the best way of connecting the units. Even throwing the proverbial kitchen sink at the hybrid link (i.e. Sigma cable + TAP module) results in only modest improvements over the Alpha SPDIF link. 

3) The hybrid connection has a slightly different presentation, perhaps a tad quieter. There is some loss of detail though. The Sigma hybrid overcomes some of this though but it doesn't improve much on the Alpha SPDIF.

4) the Audioquest Carbon was the poorest performer when compared to the Transparent Ref XL and Alpha SPDIF. There was a bigger gap between AQ carbon and the other two. Between Transparent and Alpha the gap was much smaller. 

5) the Audioprana whilst good was outclassed by the two Shunyata hybrids. It can initially sound a bit bright in the highs and dull elsewhere. However for the price it is a great performer perhaps a bargain even.

6) the Alpha SPDIF is the liveliest (in a good way) of all the cables. It has the edge over the Transparent on detail. 

7) the Transparent remains a great performer however. It is slightly calmer and warmer sounding than the Alpha which some may prefer. 

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
Reply
#5
Long awaited posts! Good job guys.
I tested several cables and found that if it is a hybrid cable, a 75ohm cable works much better than a 110ohm cable. I have nearly identical Oyaide 5N silver solid core digital cables with the main difference being the impedance. I made them hybrid using adapters of the same brand. The 75ohm cable was more dynamic and detailed. Maybe less noise because of reflections? This is with the D800 BTW.

A few days ago I bought an impedance matching transformer:
http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/ae...aditbnc-fx
Will test it in a few days and report back. I don't remember anybody using anything like this, only the one built in a cable.

Two question to Guillaume:
1. Did you fully power off and on the Devialet when swapping cables?
2. When you mean hybrid, that is just the connector type, the is no transformer installed, right?

Zoltan
Win10/HQPlayer / Roon - Uptone Audio Etherregen switch / SOtM-SMS-200 ultra with clock input - Mutec REF 10 clock for the switch and the streamer - Denafrips GAIA DCC - Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090 
power supplies: Uptone JS-2, SOtM SPS-500
Reply
#6
(24-Aug-2017, 19:24)zdenes Wrote: Two question to Guillaume:
1. Did you fully power off and on the Devialet when swapping cables?
2. When you mean hybrid, that is just the connector type, the is no transformer installed, right?

No I didn't reboot the units each time although we did occasionally have issues with the hybrid cables whereby the Companion would start behaving strangely, when this happened we had to do a full power cycle which sometimes fixed the issue and at other times didn't. This buggy behaviour has been reported on the forum before. Essentially the Companion is connected to the Master but it won't play music. The red light comes on and its switches itself off. It might be the Shunyata hybrids, I don't know. It was a bit strange and didn't happen all the time.

Hybrid = no transformer that I am aware of.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
Reply
#7
Interesting findings! Tested some RCA - RCA cables lately with and without Neutrik AES/EBU adaptor. However as I wrote to Axel: "Tried the AES/EBU with a Neutrik device. Funny enough the left channel sounded stronger (master) and the soundstage went unfocused." So perhaps one is still pretty normal functioning... Aint it a one channel (companion) issue because the signal is only out from master? Or is there any kind of interaction going on?
Tidal --> New brand streamer/dac/preamp --> InterM R500Plus monoblocks --> Intelligent Sound Double 12 --> fractal cables --> La Suède
Reply
#8
(25-Aug-2017, 14:10)Jonas Wrote:  Funny enough the left channel sounded stronger (master) and the soundstage went unfocused.
I have been using an spif-spdif cable with a Neutrik adapter for a long time (after testing just spdif-spdif) and never had such a problem but I will try with some good quality mono recordings. I have a calibrated measuring microphone and software, I will also make some measurements to see if either channel sounds louder. It will take a week or two as I'm busy with other things but will report back here.
Zoltan
Win10/HQPlayer / Roon - Uptone Audio Etherregen switch / SOtM-SMS-200 ultra with clock input - Mutec REF 10 clock for the switch and the streamer - Denafrips GAIA DCC - Devialet D800 - YG Acoustics Carmel - Dual Elac SUB-2090 
power supplies: Uptone JS-2, SOtM SPS-500
Reply
#9
That would be great Zoltan. I got help from another person and everything was double checked.
Tidal --> New brand streamer/dac/preamp --> InterM R500Plus monoblocks --> Intelligent Sound Double 12 --> fractal cables --> La Suède
Reply
#10
Replaced earlier DH Labs D-110 Custom RCA to AES Link with this one .. AQ Diamond RCA to AES custom made at AQ Factory and the results are absolutely outstanding ... been using it for a week and things are getting better and better ...

[img]<a href=[/img][Image: AQ_Diamond.jpg]" />
Roon Nucleus w/ Hypsos PSU & AQ Tornado + Roon RAAT  >  AQ Diamond ETH > etherREGEN using SFP + Hypsos PSU | CEC TL-5 CD Transport + AQ Z3 + 3 x Orea Indigo > AQ Diamond AES/EBU 
Devialet 440-Pro CI >  AQ Wel Sig  RCA-XLR | 6 x Orea Bronze, 2 x Synergistic Research Atmosphere PC | B&W 802 D3 {Bi-wired}  >  AQ WEL Signature (Biwire)
REL G1-Mk2 pair | PS Audio PP 12 + AQ NRG-1000 | Puritan GroundMaster + RouteMaster | SAM DISABLED - DPM OFF - Northern Virginia - US
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)