Optimal sample rate and bit depths for Devialet Expert

[stretchneck]

Hi - very little/confusing information on this, so I was wondering if you could reply and also post it on your website support section to help others.

My question regards how to best feed the Devialet DAC from a computer/music server as a source.  My understanding is as follows:

PCM:
CD quality file saved at 44.1/16 - default CD/Redbook.  For this file unless you have a great way of upsampling prior to feeding the DAC (e.g. HQ Player), then better quality will result by feeding the Devialet at this 16/44.1 rate?  This is because the Devialet will upsample this input to 192/24 internally prior to feeding the amplification section and it is better to use the Devialet hardware is superior for this purpose compared to something with basic output options like iTunes.

If however is a solution such as HQPlayer is used to upsample at 192/24 prior to feeding the Devialet DAC, then this would be a better option due to it's superior processing?

Also, DSD, can you confirm that this is 'technically' the best source - since DSD64 is converted to 40bit/384 kHz pcm before it is fed for amplification.

So therefore, technically DSD will be the best source, even though the Devialet Export converts to PCM?  So, this would be one reason why something like HQ player upsampling a CD quality file to DSD64 would 'technically' be the preferred solution?

Can you also confirm that DSD128 is or isn't supported?

[Hifi_swlon]

They all sound more or less the same to me, and I personally haven't found upsampling (HQPlayer or otherwise) to bring any obvious benefits. Others feel differently. Same for DSD. I now just send everything at its native rate and let the Devialet do it's thing, and not worry about it.

The upshot: there is no definitive answer as to 'what's best'. Listen and see what you prefer in your setup and way up any upsampling hassle/experimentation/nervosa versus just listening to music.

But I can say DSD 128 is definitively not possible. Not at the moment anyway. And of course DSD64 is out if you use AIR on a Mac, unless you use Roon, since they can actually get it working.

[thumb5]

Hi - very little/confusing information on this, so I was wondering if you could reply and also post it on your website support section to help others.
...

Welcome to the forum, stretchneck.  Just so you know, this is an unofficial forum, and one in which Devialet don't participate.  If you want a reply from Devialet then your best bet is to contact their support people directly.

That said, there are many helpful and knowledgeable people here (like hifi_swlon) who can probably help more quickly and comprehensively...

[iamwappie]

But I can say DSD 128 is definitively not possible. Not at the moment anyway. And of course DSD64 is out if you use AIR on a Mac, unless you use Roon, since they can actually get it working.

I have recently installed bass traps is the corners behind the speakers resulting in a lot more detail however also becoming a bit harsh in the tremble (I have a 'hard' room) so I started to experiment a bit. DSD for me sounded better. More 'silky' and musical. But what I also discovered is that Roon is actually able to retreive the Treble and Bass values from the Devialet as these are indicated in the signal path.

   

Now if only Devialet would have thought of that is their remote control app...

[Jean-Marie]

Hi - very little/confusing information on this, so I was wondering if you could reply and also post it on your website support section to help others.

My question regards how to best feed the Devialet DAC from a computer/music server as a source.  My understanding is as follows:

PCM:
CD quality file saved at 44.1/16 - default CD/Redbook.  For this file unless you have a great way of upsampling prior to feeding the DAC (e.g. HQ Player), then better quality will result by feeding the Devialet at this 16/44.1 rate?  This is because the Devialet will upsample this input to 192/24 internally prior to feeding the amplification section and it is better to use the Devialet hardware is superior for this purpose compared to something with basic output options like iTunes.

If however is a solution such as HQPlayer is used to upsample at 192/24 prior to feeding the Devialet DAC, then this would be a better option due to it's superior processing?

Also, DSD, can you confirm that this is 'technically' the best source - since DSD64 is converted to 40bit/384 kHz pcm before it is fed for amplification.

So therefore, technically DSD will be the best source, even though the Devialet Export converts to PCM?  So, this would be one reason why something like HQ player upsampling a CD quality file to DSD64 would 'technically' be the preferred solution?

Can you also confirm that DSD128 is or isn't supported?

Upsampling does not create any new information like by magic.
The only advantage of upsampling is that it moves the aliasing frequency in the upper octaves, (for instance if you upsample from 44.1 to 96, the aliasing frequency moves from 22kHz to 48kHz). It does not magically create any information in the 22kHz to 48kHz band, but now the reconstruction filter for your DAC only needs to cut above 48kHz instead of 22kHz, which because 48k is way above the commonly accepted 20kHz or human hearing, means your filter will have less artifacts in the 20Hz to 20kHz if it cuts at 48KHz instead of 22 kHz.

This means that, unless you perform signal processing, the only thing that matter is the upsampling performed by the DAC, and anything you can do before does not change a single thing.

Same is true for increasing the bit depth: information is not being created by magic and unless you perform signal processing (and that's the reason why the Devialet is using 48 bits floating point samples if I remember correctly) increasing the bit depth does not change anything.

Jean-Marie

[petrik]

This is just my subjective opinion, but I have found that Devialet sounds best when I upsample all music to 24/192 kHz in the Roon or in the HQPlayer. I wish I could upsample everything to 384 kHz but that is not supported at the moment. Also DSD128, DSD256, and DSD512 are not supported.

I can confirm that the DSD64 sounds more 'silky' than 24/192 kHz.

[Fragoulisnaval]

I am a loyal bit perfect schoolist, so no upsampling whatsoever on the signal.

I just take care to have the best possible transport...

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[Confused]

I have tried upsampling to PCM, upsampling to DSD and also various filter options as available with HQPlayer. The first point I would make is that the difference between sending bit perfect and upsampling is far smaller than the difference you might experience between different quality sources and indeed between the various input options.

So I would look at the quality of source first, mindful that all other things being equal, the AES/EBU input is preferred and is generally reckoned to be better than the Devialet's USB input. That said, the sound quality that can be achieved using Devialet AIR is now so good that you would need a very decent source to better it.

I have tried DSD upsampling with both Roon and HQplayer, whist it nominally sounded quite pleasant in some respects, I did notice a definite reduction with bass definition, this was not for me.

Currently I upsample PCM using HQPlayer, which allows me to 'fine tune' very slightly using the various filter options. This is playing with sound quality very much on the limit of what can be observed I think, but does make a minor difference. In short, I would say use a decent source via AES/EBU, the rest is 'fine tuning'

[stretchneck]

Many thanks for your responses. I also agree with Confused's remarks. The quality of the source material will make the most difference, after this probably your room acoustics (I am going to try room correction via convolution at some point, and would love bass traps, but struggle to integrate them into our family living room!), and then the type of input/streamer used.

What I have gleaned from the feedback is that when dealing with PCM it's probably best just to supply the Devialet at the PCM files native rate and let the Devialet do it's magic - for me this will be CD/Redbook 16/44.1. So there would be no point in selecting your network streamer to upsample beyond the files native rate - is this correct?

For DSD64 I guess there is no point to discussion anyway since it always gets converted to 40bit/384 kHz pcm. Then we're really into the discussion of which file format sounds best (DSD vs PCM), which was not really the intent of my question.

If my understanding is correct, then you've saved me a lot of time playing around upsampling to PCM, upsampling to DSD and also various filter options as available with HQPlayer as Confused has.

[Confused]

Actually, by 'source' I was referring to the source device, such as a PC via USB, Aurender music server, Melco, microRendu, or a whole range of other possible 'front end' devices. That said, I would agree that the quality of the source material (music file) matters as much as anything, but if you want to play something for the actual music, the source material will be what it will be.

One curious thing about DSD64, as has been mentioned by myself and a couple of others, upsampling to DSD64 may not yield the best results. (although some prefer it) However, I did once listen to a dCS Vivaldi upsampler with the dCS Vivaldi Master Clock, this was upsampling to DSD64, feeding a D800 via AES/EBU and it sounded superb. (but is very expensive) So it does demonstrate that the Devialet can potentially work well with DSD64, as it does with 'native' DSD material.

I also understand that the Devialet hardware is capable of DSD128, this may be offered as an update of the 'MAT' feature in the very distant future.