Graham LS5/9

[f1eng]

LS5/8 and LS5/9 are both standard BBC designations.
The basic design is a given and there is not much variance permitted by the BBC if the manufacturer wishes to use the designation and be licensed.
The BBC require them to sound the same as each other so any LS5/8 or LS5/9 (or LS3/5a) can be dropped in as a replacement for any other if one gets damaged, for example.
Mind you, I don't know how many are still in use at the beeb 30 years after they first came into service.
Derek Hughes said in the interview that he specified the 8" unit and that his intention was to produce the LS5/9 sound without the unit suffering the deterioration heard in the existing old units out there.
The LS5/8 does have a 12" bass unit.

Edit: some info, though I can't vouch for its accuracy it is, after all, on an internet site
http://www.markhennessy.co.uk/rogers/ls58.htm

another edit, Harbeth actually state that the Monitor 30 is a "refinement" of the LS5/9. Certainly all Harbeths have been designed using the BBC design philosophy since day 1 as Dudley Harwood was a senior engineer at the BBC and was instrumental in coming up with the cabinet philosophy used by all the LS speakers since and experimented with cone materials.

Frank,

In your first post you mention that the Graham LS5/9 has a 12" woofer (or was it a misspelling?) however as you say now it has a 8" hence I stated this.

To my ears the Graham LS5/9 is a refinement of the Harbeth 30.1 sound output despite that the Graham version is licensed and has to stick to the original construction. Though as I understand from the interview is that Graham made some refinements too.

A 12" bass unit on the LS5/8 should on paper including the more than 3 times bigger box be able to output both more as deeper bass,

Our listening room is about 30 m2 so I guess it could take the bigger LS5/8.

I will for sure have a go with the LS5/8 in my home before making a commitment to buy.

/Mike

Yes Mike,
I got confused with my BBC nomenclature, sorry! It is the LS5/8 which has the 12" main unit. Indeed it should produce more bass, the problem has always been the beaming of the mid range and up to crossover frequencies of such a large main unit and integrating the step to the tweeter.
I have never heard a LS5/8 but have had Harbeth active Monitor 40s here on loan from their owner. His other pair sounded absolutely fabulous in a different room but here I have been unable to find a location where the bass is not bloated and tubby sounding, unfortunately. They are extremely room position sensitive.
I haven't heard either the Harbeth M30 or the Graham, just the Rogers LS5/9 decades ago.

[Mikeeo]

LS5/8 and LS5/9 are both standard BBC designations.
The basic design is a given and there is not much variance permitted by the BBC if the manufacturer wishes to use the designation and be licensed.
The BBC require them to sound the same as each other so any LS5/8 or LS5/9 (or LS3/5a) can be dropped in as a replacement for any other if one gets damaged, for example.
Mind you, I don't know how many are still in use at the beeb 30 years after they first came into service.
Derek Hughes said in the interview that he specified the 8" unit and that his intention was to produce the LS5/9 sound without the unit suffering the deterioration heard in the existing old units out there.
The LS5/8 does have a 12" bass unit.

Edit: some info, though I can't vouch for its accuracy it is, after all, on an internet site
http://www.markhennessy.co.uk/rogers/ls58.htm

another edit, Harbeth actually state that the Monitor 30 is a "refinement" of the LS5/9. Certainly all Harbeths have been designed using the BBC design philosophy since day 1 as Dudley Harwood was a senior engineer at the BBC and was instrumental in coming up with the cabinet philosophy used by all the LS speakers since and experimented with cone materials.

Frank,

In your first post you mention that the Graham LS5/9 has a 12" woofer (or was it a misspelling?) however as you say now it has a 8" hence I stated this.

To my ears the Graham LS5/9 is a refinement of the Harbeth 30.1 sound output despite that the Graham version is licensed and has to stick to the original construction. Though as I understand from the interview is that Graham made some refinements too.

A 12" bass unit on the LS5/8 should on paper including the more than 3 times bigger box be able to output both more as deeper bass,

Our listening room is about 30 m2 so I guess it could take the bigger LS5/8.

I will for sure have a go with the LS5/8 in my home before making a commitment to buy.

/Mike

Yes Mike,
I got confused with my BBC nomenclature, sorry! It is the LS5/8 which has the 12" main unit. Indeed it should produce more bass, the problem has always been the beaming of the mid range and up to crossover frequencies of such a large main unit and integrating the step to the tweeter.
I have never heard a LS5/8 but have had Harbeth active Monitor 40s here on loan from their owner. His other pair sounded absolutely fabulous in a different room but here I have been unable to find a location where the bass is not bloated and tubby sounding, unfortunately. They are extremely room position sensitive.
I haven't heard either the Harbeth M30 or the Graham, just the Rogers LS5/9 decades ago.

Frank,

This is one of my worries about the bigger upcoming model however I have good hopes as the Volt mid/bass unit seem to do its stuff extremely well and there is no issues in the LS5/9 8" unit, not even a hint.
The Harbeth 40's has, as you describe above, a too strong room loading ability (bass) and has never been on my list since a brief listening having the speaker moved around from the side and back walls. Ended up having them more then 2 meters from the back wall, not a solution that would work in my home and still it wasn't to my taste.

As I have been prepared to go for Raidos D1, Wilson Duettes 2 etc as I suddenly has found a speaker that to me communicates more music than the exotic previous mentioned (I've only heard the Duette 1) but perhaps not the HiFi triggers these more expensive models have, but I do not care. Go and have a listen to the Graham and let us know what you think.

My upcoming home demo will tell me if I found my 'gem'.

Cheers/Mike

[Mikeeo]

Hello,

Had the Graham LS5/9 at home today!
After hearing them at a few occasions with different gear and really falling in love with them, today was a total disappointment!
It did not work at all, they where gray in the midtone, muddled, shut in etc. Bass was the only part that was good, with good depth and solidity (better than my PL100). First time I heard them with the Devialet so I guess it wasn't a match in heaven in my system.
We moved them around, played with settings on the Dev etc but the 'signature' persisted.
On complex material everything collapsed and by the time my wife came back home we called it the day after she developed a headache after 1 minute with the comment: -It sounds like a mess!
To say something more positive is that instruments and voices sounded more real (among the best I heard) in the few recordings that was well recorded even if the 'grayness' still was there.

I still think that these loudspeakers are fantastic but not in my system obviously. Seldom I experienced such mismatch, highly disappointed.

My dealer was as surprised as me so the hunt goes on for other speakers. Despite our almost 30 m2 big room my dealer suggested to stick with stand mount loudspeakers.

He has a pair of Raidho X1 coming in soon which I for sure will try at home, with SAM of course. If that works out I may give the Raidho D1 a go in the system. He also thought that the Diablo Utopia 3 would work good but I never heard it with Devialet.

New suggestions for speakers from you forum members?

/Mike

   

[Jwg1749]

A couple of years ago I was engaged in a similar quest. I tried Harbeth SHL5s at home (lovely top end and tonality but uncontrolled bass), and did several demos of SHL5s and M30.1s. The speakers that for me did the good things that Harbeths do, only better, were Sonus fabers. The demo that persuaded me comprised the Cremona Auditor Ms against the SHL5s and M30.1s, all on the end of a D200. I bought a second-hand pair of the Cremonas.

These are speakers that absolutely must be demoed at home, as they're rear-ported.

[thumb5]

I can certainly say that SF Guarneri (Homage) sound terrific driven by the 200. If you like small-ish, stand-mount speakers perhaps the current Guarneri Evolution might be worth a try.

[thumb5]

PS: I see they are SAM'd already, too.

[Mikeeo]

Hello,

With regards to the SF G Evolution I already had a demo with a D200 and I found them in need of more power at that time and also somewhat forward projected midrange. At the same time I also had a listen to the Amati Futuras which to my surprise was better driven by the D200 and also had a better midrange ie it was integrated with the rest of the freq spectra. To me the Amati sounded more like a monitor than the Evolution. Though I would never be able to make the most of the Futuras in our room.
Perhaps I should give the Evolution a try in my set-up with D400, that power hike may just be what they need!?
My dealer has a demo air at the moment at a very good price. My only concern about the Evolution part from the power hungriness and midrange are the tall stands as I feel they will have me sitting on pillows to reach the 'sweetspot'.

Well the hunt is on, next up Raidho X1 and why not Guarneri Evo.

The more I look at this concerning the stand mounted loudspeaker the more I feel that SAM will bring something good to the table so focus will be on SAMed speakers from now on.

/Mike

[Pim]

Worried about the sweet spot? Tilt them. My Dynaudio C1's are lifted about 7-8 cm at the back (my 'stands' are very high) You would be surprised by how much influence tilt has on SQ.

[Mikeeo]

Worried about the sweet spot? Tilt them. My Dynaudio C1's are lifted about 7-8 cm at the back (my 'stands' are very high) You would be surprised by how much influence tilt has on SQ.

Pim,

Good suggestion! Time will show when I have them at demo, soon I hope!

/Mike