BACCH Stereo Image Purifier

[m4gnus]

I listened to the new (2017) BACCH-ADIO today. It was an almost breathtaking experience. Anyone with a BACCH in the system that would like to share his views?

It's costly, SEK 230.000 (EUR 24.150 GBP 21.600), but I'm beginning to think it's worth the money. Placed between source and amplifiers it eliminates stereo Crosstalk with a patented Princeton University technique. 

https://www.theoretica.us/bacch-sp.html

[ogs]

It is VERY expensive! Will never find it's way into my system at that price unfortunately.

[AaronG]

https://www.audiostream.com/content/bacc...tem-follow

[m4gnus]

It is VERY expensive! Will never find it's way into my system at that price unfortunately.

It is expensive. The bad thing is that the developer holds a very strong patent. The good thing is that every high end mobile device might have it for free in 18 months. Who knows?

[Alec_eiffel]

It is very expensive and probably works well but price is out of reach.
This company has developed quite interesting X-talk filters together with Room Correction, and price is 200 times lower...
We discuss it here : https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?...2#pid66832
Spoiler : I know that a "personalised" version of these filters is under development. I don't know when it will be commercially launched but the beta tests are very promising. A comparison with BACCH would definitely be interesting!

[m4gnus]

It is very expensive and probably works well but price is out of reach.
This company has developed quite interesting X-talk filters together with Room Correction, and price is 200 times lower...
We discuss it here : https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?...2#pid66832
Spoiler : I know that a "personalised" version of these filters is under development. I don't know when it will be commercially launched but the beta tests are very promising. A comparison with BACCH would definitely be interesting!

Thanks Alec! I realize that I should have placed my thread in tweaker's corner. I just didn't know the meaning of "tweaker" until now. HAF sounds interesting although I don't understand how it works, in fact I don't even understand what a filter is.

I still believe BAACH is worth discussing if anyone should have experiences from the product and I will try to get this thread moved.

[Alec_eiffel]

Thanks Alec! I realize that I should have placed my thread in tweaker's corner. I just didn't know the meaning of "tweaker" until now. HAF sounds interesting although I don't understand how it works, in fact I don't even understand what a filter is.

I still believe BAACH is worth discussing if anyone should have experiences from the product and I will try to get this thread moved.

By filters I mean digital filters applied "convoluted" with a digital audio stream  (that's what BACCH does). There are lots of solutions for speakers/room correction like Dirac, Acourate, Mathaudio... HAF actually does 1) room correction, 2) speaker directivity/reverberated field tone correction, and 3) has implemented a well thought X-talk cancellation algorithm. 

The huge advantage is that it doesn't require any hardware, but a digital player such as Roon, HQPlayer, Jriver, Foobar/Convolver... I don't think your streamer can do convolution so you would need a Mac/PC/NUC as audio server.

EDIT : keep us posted if you try BACCH, there are not so many reviews available!

[m4gnus]

Thanks Alec! I realize that I should have placed my thread in tweaker's corner. I just didn't know the meaning of "tweaker" until now. HAF sounds interesting although I don't understand how it works, in fact I don't even understand what a filter is.

I still believe BAACH is worth discussing if anyone should have experiences from the product and I will try to get this thread moved.

By filters I mean digital filters applied "convoluted" with a digital audio stream  (that's what BACCH does). There are lots of solutions for speakers/room correction like Dirac, Acourate, Mathaudio... HAF actually does 1) room correction, 2) speaker directivity/reverberated field tone correction, and 3) has implemented a well thought X-talk cancellation algorithm. 

The huge advantage is that it doesn't require any hardware, but a digital player such as Roon, HQPlayer, Jriver, Foobar/Convolver... I don't think your streamer can do convolution so you would need a Mac/PC/NUC as audio server.

EDIT : keep us posted if you try BACCH, there are not so many reviews available!

The developer of BACCH produced the following comments over HAF's solution. I guess you get what you pay for and the question is how big difference it is between them.

1. Making a crosstalk cancellation (XTC) filter using point measurements (with a single microphone) is far inferior to doing one from a binaural measurement using the intended listener’s head. All that the former can do is give you some stereo image widening. It cannot give you an accurate 3D image. 

2. Unless they are using our patented technique for deriving the filter (which would constitute an illegal patent infringement) their XTC filter would almost definitely cause some tonal distortion, like all other attempts to do XTC. 

3. They cannot do head tracking. And with no head tracking the sweet spot is very narrow 

4. If the customer slightly changes the speakers location or the listener location or uses different speakers or components, the XTC filter will not only be void but wrong and would lead to severe tonal and imaging distortion. 

I will hopefully be able to try BACCH at home sometimes in the next two weeks and promise to keep you updated.

[Alec_eiffel]

Thanks Magnus! Keep us posted!

[m4gnus]

I tried BACCH ("B") at home last night. It was a bit disappointing. When I listened to B in the store the 3D sound was an absolute sensation. The music spread outside the speakers, positioning instruments and voices to their own places instead of being squeezed into the center between the speakers. The sound also got a 3rd dimension as it became deeper in the room space (close, far). When I value SQ I normally think "are the musicians in my room". I have never experienced a similar musical presence as with B, definitely close to live.

In my living room, which is really big (+85 sqm), I have two Mbl 101E MkII so the music can be enjoyed in the entire room. The speakers are 360-degree-radiating omnidirectional spheres emitting the sound in a circular signal. I guess that technique sort of killed the effect of the B filter. The sound stayed between the speakers. B definitely added a lot of extra dynamics to the sound, all because of the cross talk filter I suppose, but the 3D-sensation wasn't there. I would easily pay money for the improved SQ, but not the sums of a B Stereo Image Purifier.

Anyway, one thing is for sure. These kind of filters are the future in sound development techniques.