D400 power output at 8 ohms

[Kuky]

Hello,

I searched quite a lot but did not find an official spec for how much power the D400 outputs at 8 ohms.

I own a D200 and have quite a good deal to buy a pair of  Triangle Magellan Quatuor speakers. 

Links for this speakers here: 

http://www.triangle-fr.com/magellan_quatuor_en
https://www.audioemotion.co.uk/triangle-...3858-p.asp

This speakers are rated at 260W handling power - nominal impedance 8 ohms.
I tested them with the D 200 and it cannot drive them properly. The sound is thin and saturated.
This speakers tested on an McIntosh C1100 Tube preamp + 2 x 1.2kw McIntosh monos sound PHENOMENAL. I got to have them.
Dealer told me this speakers need lots of current. For example we tested them on the 4 ohm output of the McIntosh monos and they sounded even better!

I was thinking that perhaps buying a D200 companion will help me to drive this fabulous speakers.

Any ideas ?

[Axel]

Hello,

I searched quite a lot but did not find an official spec for how much power the D400 outputs at 8 ohms.

I own a D200 and have quite a good deal to buy a pair of  Triangle Magellan Quatuor speakers. 

Links for this speakers here: 

http://www.triangle-fr.com/magellan_quatuor_en
https://www.audioemotion.co.uk/triangle-...3858-p.asp

This speakers are rated at 260W handling power - nominal impedance 8 ohms.
I tested them with the D 200 and it cannot drive them properly. The sound is thin and saturated.
This speakers tested on an McIntosh C1100 Tube preamp + 2 x 1.2kw McIntosh monos sound PHENOMENAL. I got to have them.
Dealer told me this speakers need lots of current. For example we tested them on the 4 ohm output of the McIntosh monos and they sounded even better!

I was thinking that perhaps buying a D200 companion will help me to drive this fabulous speakers.

Any ideas ?

Even though the Speakers may be a nominal 8 Ohm impedance, under dynamic load, all speakers will dip a lot lower than this. I would imagine that the Triangles are a difficult load and the only way to see if a D400 could cope is to arrange an audition, preferably in your own room.

[Kuky]

Thank you for your answer.

Quatuor will dip to 3 ohms (minimum impedance).
I know testing is the best answer but I don't have a second D200 or a companion so this is out of question.

[Jean-Marie]

A D400 will give you 300W at 8 ohms, 600W at 4 ohms and 800W at 3 ohms, the deepest dip of the Quatuor.

Do you remember what was the attenuation the D200 when you listen to them?

I recommend to never exceed 0dB when you are on a digital source and you don't know the headroom of the recording.

An other factor to consider is that if you want to fully benefit from SAM you should keep a good reserve of power for SAM to kick in. If you are listening at 0dB and that there is a low frequency signal that reaches 0dBFS and would require the boosting of SAM to be properly reproduced by the speaker, running at 0dB does not allow it to occur.

For that reason, On programs that peak near to 0dBFS, I am never pushing my D220 beyond -8dB, -6dB at most.

Jean-Marie

[Confused]

I cannot answer the question definitively, but I do think I have some relevant experience. Back in 2013 I listened to the KEF Blades for the first time, this was a demo with what was then the D240. This was a good demonstration, everything sounded excellent. Following this I auditioned a variety of amplifiers, many at a higher cost, and could find nothing that I preferred to the Devialet. About six months after that first demo of the Blades plus the D240, this is what I ultimately bought. The thing that is relevant here is that one thing I tried with the Blades was what was then the D170. This was a terrible audition, a complete loss of dynamics, bass control, many things. Of all the things I tried with the Blades, the D170 was easily the worst, a far bigger difference from the D240 than the loss of 70 watts would suggest, curious when the D240 was for me by far the best. The D200 is of course a D170 with a firmware update, and the D400 is a superior beast to the D240. So it looks to me that there is a threshold somewhere, if you have a speaker that the Devialet struggles with, the results can be bad, but move up the Devialet range to the point you cross that threshold, then the difference is transformative.

Would the D400 be enough to take the Triangles beyond that threshold? My guess is yes, comfortably. Other points to note, the Blades dip to 3.2 ohms minimum and have four 9" bass drivers per side, and these are bass drivers with unusually large voice coils for their 9" size. Looking at on paper data is a notoriously dangerous thing to do with hifi, but on balance, I would say the Blades look the slightly tricker load. The D240 is also 160w less powerful than the D400. There is a good chance a D400 would drive them perfectly I would say. Of course, there is no substitute for trying this for real, but we are all agreed on that point!

As an open question, has anyone ever found a speaker that the D400 cannot drive?

[Jean-Marie]

I'm with Confused here, I doubt there are much speakers that a D400 cannot drive, provided that you don't try to go louder than what it is driving them with a bit of headroom.

Exceptions would be speakers that have a dip below 2 ohms perhaps, but even that would need to be proven and would depend on the loudness you want to drive them.

Jean-Marie

[user33]

I think it's worth a shot to pick up a companion d200. They've depreciated a lot so the argument is easier to make these days. I saw some impedance curves for the magellan concerto (i guess an older version of this speaker?) - similar specs/woofers with 8ohm nominal and 3ohm dip but no idea if actually the same. Comparing this to my kef blade 2, it looks like a much harder speaker to drive (correct me if I'm wrong as I understand the speaker measurements at a general level). In my case, I originally had a D200 and bought the companion unit because I wondered what effect it would have. I think the KEF Blade 2's did just fine with one D200 and outside of a few DB of headroom gained, it wasn't a night and day difference overall. However, seems like in your case it might be worthwhile...

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tria...asurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-...asurements

[listener]

German magazine Stereoplay tested D400 in 12/2014 and the measurement for power are:
8 Ohm - 50,8 Volt output voltage, max. current at 3 Ohm was 13,6 Ampere.
8 Ohm - power output  311 Watt, Burst power 60Hz was 323 Watt
4 Ohm - power output 622 Watt  (we know that this amplifier shuts power down when heating to much)
may this help.

[Kuky]

Hello,

Thank you all for your answers.
To make it short I had the chance to loan for a few hours another D200 and the resulting D 400 drives correctly the Magellan Quatour.
I will say "correctly" because although it drives them the sound was somehow lifeless, was not very happy with what I heard. I know what those speakers are capable of when driven to their full capabilities.


I know somebody who sells a D170. Is it correct to assume that this can be upgraded for free through firmware to D200? And I can pair it with my D200 to make a D400?

Regards,
Cristian

[NickB]

Correct


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