My first few days with Roon

[Womaz]

Well only 2 days into using Roon and I thought I would share my initial impressions.
Firstly I am only trialing Roon as I am fed up with streaming issues with Tidal using my Melco, but I admit to falling in love with the software……well with a one big caveat.
I must stress at this point that I am not one for continually making changes to my system and experimenting. I like to find something I like and stick with it. Some of the lengths you guys on here go to astounds me at times but you have my admiration and I love reading the forum.
So the very first time I was listening with Roon I noticed it just didn’t sound the same as my Melco. After a few more listens and a bit of comparing I believe Roon does not sound as good as streaming through my Melco. The most noticeable thing for me was the bass. The Melco delivers a really nice tight bass, with Roon this becomes a little more powerful bass with more impact but a tad bloated if that makes sense, it sort of overpowers the other instruments or vocals. My apologies for my description of what I hear, its not my forte I know ;-)
I also feel that separation of instruments is not quite as good, with Roon the music seems less clear, like too much going on. Also in quieter patches of music the Melco is deadly quiet whereas I feel Roon is not as quiet if that makes sense.
I find it very hard to do comparisons as I am sure my mind can then take over, and I can over analyse, hey that’s my nature, however the bass is a definite problem with Roon for me. This was apparent the very first time I listened.
I then revisited my posts about my initial impressions from when I first introduced the Melco and it was the improved bass performance that stood out for me back then. The Melco get the PC out of the chain and maybe this is why it just sounds better to me. By using Roon I am effectively sticking the PC back in the chain. I can live with this now ……but only if I can get similar SQ. This is my dilemma.
Question is can I get more out of Roon? There is a DSP section which I have looked at and experimented with and you can make some huge changes with it, but I don’t really know what I am doing and the guide is not that good in my opinion.
Roon is stable though for me. Yes its bloody stable ;-). One stutter in about 16 hours of use and no drop outs.
I know in future I can change my system to incorporate Roon without a PC and if I decide to keep Roon I will investigate this. I would love the SQ I get from the Melco when using Roon. I assume there is no way I can use the Melco with Roon?
I try not to mess about with my system as for me I want to spend that time listening to music, but this has become essential due to the Tidal streaming issues I am having, but once I get a bee in my bonnet I wont leave it alone until I get it sorted.
So for now I have stable music playback but I think it has come at a cost. Any comments or observations as always are welcome.

[petrik]

Thank you for sharing your impressions!

I then revisited my posts about my initial impressions from when I first introduced the Melco and it was the improved bass performance that stood out for me back then. The Melco get the PC out of the chain and maybe this is why it just sounds better to me. By using Roon I am effectively sticking the PC back in the chain. I can live with this now ……but only if I can get similar SQ. This is my dilemma.

There are lots of ways to improve SQ of Roon. For example:

1. Make sure you follow all Roon's recommendations regarding SQ. https://kb.roonlabs.com/Sound_Quality
   
2. Roon DSP helps doing digital room correction if you have problems with bass. You need a microphone for taking measurements. http://blog.roonlabs.com/digital-room-correction/
   
3. Roon DSP can do upsampling and it might increase SQ slightly. It's worth a try to upsample everything to 192 kHz. https://kb.roonlabs.com/DSP_Engine:_Samp...Conversion
   
4. You could start using HQPlayer together with Roon. Upsampling in HQPlayer definitely improves/changes SQ. The only problem with this setup is that you have to use Devialet AIR driver and it might not work so well on Windows 10. https://kb.roonlabs.com/HQPlayer_Setup
   
5. You could change your Melco to something that runs Roon Server. Like for example Innuos Zenith Mk2. Some people have reported even increased SQ when using Innuos instead of Melco. http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/stream...6361222353
   
6. You could start using Roon Ready endpoints like Sonore ultraRendu or Sotm-sms200 ultra. Even better if you use use them together with Mutec MC3+ USB. Many people have found this combination (Sonore/Sotm and Mutec) sounding better than Devialet AIR.
   

[David A]

Also with Roon, go into the settings menu and choose "Audio". You'll probably see several options listed there. Turn off all of the options apart from the one you are using. With my Antipodes I can see analog, coaxial, and optical digital outputs from the server, a Roon Ready option for USB from the server, and the Devialet AIR option for ethernet input (I have the WiFi input deactivated in my configuration). I turn everything off except the Devialet AIR ethernet option. Only having the output option you're using active and the other outputs deactivated in Roon makes a small difference but it does make a difference.

[Morten]

Hallo Womaz

Please post your findings when you are done experimenting

I was in the same situations as you, I wanted to get rid of my Aurender and only have one box, but the Aurender just sounds better—in my setup more relaxed. I am however still intrigued by the possibility to only have one box—and a server somewhere in the house.

I also had some issues with stability, but I think it was because of the low spec PC I used to run ROON.

Kind regards Morten

[Womaz]

Also with Roon, go into the settings menu and choose "Audio". You'll probably see several options listed there. Turn off all of the options apart from the one you are using. With my Antipodes I can see analog, coaxial, and optical digital outputs from the server, a Roon Ready option for USB from the server, and the Devialet AIR option for ethernet input (I have the WiFi input deactivated in my configuration). I turn everything off except the Devialet AIR ethernet option. Only having the output option you're using active and the other  outputs deactivated in Roon makes a small difference but it does make a difference.

I have now done this thank you

[Womaz]

Thank you for sharing your impressions!

I then revisited my posts about my initial impressions from when I first introduced the Melco and it was the improved bass performance that stood out for me back then. The Melco get the PC out of the chain and maybe this is why it just sounds better to me. By using Roon I am effectively sticking the PC back in the chain. I can live with this now ……but only if I can get similar SQ. This is my dilemma.

There are lots of ways to improve SQ of Roon. For example:

1. Make sure you follow all Roon's recommendations regarding SQ. https://kb.roonlabs.com/Sound_Quality
   
2. Roon DSP helps doing digital room correction if you have problems with bass. You need a microphone for taking measurements. http://blog.roonlabs.com/digital-room-correction/
   
3. Roon DSP can do upsampling and it might increase SQ slightly. It's worth a try to upsample everything to 192 kHz. https://kb.roonlabs.com/DSP_Engine:_Samp...Conversion
   
4. You could start using HQPlayer together with Roon. Upsampling in HQPlayer definitely improves/changes SQ. The only problem with this setup is that you have to use Devialet AIR driver and it might not work so well on Windows 10. https://kb.roonlabs.com/HQPlayer_Setup
   
5. You could change your Melco to something that runs Roon Server. Like for example Innuos Zenith Mk2. Some people have reported even increased SQ when using Innuos instead of Melco.  http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/stream...6361222353
   
6. You could start using Roon Ready endpoints like Sonore ultraRendu or Sotm-sms200 ultra. Even better if you use use them together with Mutec MC3+ USB. Many people have found this combination (Sonore/Sotm and Mutec) sounding better than Devialet AIR.
   

A very helpful post Petrik thank you.

Points 1 and 3 I will have a look at and do some reading when i get the chance
Point 2 .....I wont be going to that length to sort this out , but again thank you for suggestion
Point 4 I will be avoiding anything to do with Air as I had such a bad experience in the past. i know it has improved but I will try and avoid it

Points 5 and 6 . Yes this is something that I would definitely consider if Roon is the way forward. After just 2 days I cant see me giving it up........IT JUST WORKS

The Melco will be virtually redundant. I wont need a CD ripper either as I have just stopped doing this or buying any more.
So yes if I go Roon the Melco can be sold to fund something that is Roon ready.

[Jantje BEton]

Hallo Womaz,

My setup is comparable to yours being Devialet 400 / Melco N1Z / Roon (NUC/Rock). But bass and loudspeaker cables/systems hard to compare but .......

I've chosen to run Rock on a (dedicated) NUC i5 device. A dedicated Roon OS (stripped Linux) appealed to me and became my choice. I prefer this ethernet solution above the Melco USB one, but that's just for me.

I listen to Qobuz (European Tidal) through my Melco using Audioquest Diamond USB cable to directly connect these devices.
I listen to ripped/downloaded FLAC/DSF files that reside on my Melco throug Roon/Rock (using the Melco cifs/smb feature as storage location).

I'm not starting a discussion which sounds best, we've different pair of ears, brains and listening rooms.

But what I want to suggest is the following configuration option that improved my Rock/Roon SQ and is also applicliable on a Apple/Linux/Windows device (determined by how one runs Roon).

• Apply an USB-Ethernet adapter to your Roon device to create an extra NIC (costs €20-€30)
  
• Dispatch your current Roon device CAT ethernet cable and patch it to the new USB-Ethernet adapter
  
• Configure your "old" ethernet device with new unused IP address / Subnet attributes . (In my case 192.168.254.1/255.255.255.0, remove gateway and DNS server attributes)
  
• Configure the "new" ethernet device with the IP address / Gateway/ Subnet / DNS Server attributes that were defined at your "old" ethernet device. (In my case 192.168.1.3/192.168.1.254/255.255.255.0/192.168.1.254)
  
• Using Devialet Configurator change your Ethernet properties to the new subnet as defined on your Roon device (example 192.168.254.254/255.255.255.0)
  
• Download the changed Devialet configuration on a (empty) SD card and place the SD card in your Devialet
  
• Patch a good quality CAT6 ethernet cable directly from your Roon device (old NIC) to the Ethernet port of your Devialet.
  
• The Roon Settings => Audio will show the Devialet with the changed IP information. Zoning stays unchanged (although I only use one zone so I'm not sure of this)
  

A couple of remarks on which or why:

• Being a Network Engineer of profession I strongly favor fixed IP configurations when possible.
  
• Both your Roon device and Devialet have "Auto Recognize" capabilities, a "cross-cable" isn't needed to patch them
  
• Because your Roon device and your Devialet are "directly connected" on a dedicated subnet no other ethernet traffic will cause interference (noise) which improves the SQ
  
• The Roon controller app and, if used, your Mellco or an other NAS will be reachable through the new USB-Ethernet adapter so no loss of functionality
  
• I've no knowledge of your physical situation and can't assure that the above solution is applicable
  
• Again everybody has different pair of ears, brains and listening rooms so this MIGHT improve SQ but no guarantees. Tasting is prove to the pudding aka listening is prove ...
  

Kind regards,
Jan

[Womaz]

Hallo Womaz,

My setup is comparable to yours being Devialet 400 / Melco N1Z / Roon (NUC/Rock). But bass and loudspeaker cables/systems hard to compare but .......

I've chosen to run Rock on a (dedicated) NUC i5 device. A dedicated Roon OS (stripped Linux) appealed to me and became my choice. I prefer this ethernet solution above the Melco USB one, but that's just for me.

I listen to Qobuz (European Tidal) through my Melco using Audioquest Diamond USB cable to directly connect these devices.
I listen to ripped/downloaded FLAC/DSF files that reside on my Melco throug Roon/Rock (using the Melco cifs/smb feature as storage location).

I'm not starting a discussion which sounds best, we've different pair of ears, brains and listening rooms.

But what I want to suggest is the following configuration option that improved my Rock/Roon SQ and is also applicliable on a Apple/Linux/Windows device (determined by how one runs Roon).

• Apply an USB-Ethernet adapter to your Roon device to create an extra NIC (costs €20-€30)
  
• Dispatch your current Roon device CAT ethernet cable and patch it to the new USB-Ethernet adapter
  
• Configure your "old" ethernet device with new unused IP address / Subnet attributes . (In my case 192.168.254.1/255.255.255.0, remove gateway and DNS server attributes)
  
• Configure the "new" ethernet device with the IP address / Gateway/ Subnet / DNS Server attributes that were defined at your "old" ethernet device. (In my case 192.168.1.3/192.168.1.254/255.255.255.0/192.168.1.254)
  
• Using Devialet Configurator change your Ethernet properties to the new subnet as defined on your Roon device (example 192.168.254.254/255.255.255.0)
  
• Download the changed Devialet configuration on a (empty) SD card and place the SD card in your Devialet
  
• Patch a good quality CAT6 ethernet cable directly from your Roon device (old NIC) to the Ethernet port of your Devialet.
  
• The Roon Settings => Audio will show the Devialet with the changed IP information. Zoning stays unchanged (although I only use one zone so I'm not sure of this)
  

A couple of remarks on which or why:

• Being a Network Engineer of profession I strongly favor fixed IP configurations when possible.
  
• Both your Roon device and Devialet have "Auto Recognize" capabilities, a "cross-cable" isn't needed to patch them
  
• Because your Roon device and your Devialet are "directly connected" on a dedicated subnet no other ethernet traffic will cause interference (noise) which improves the SQ
  
• The Roon controller app and, if used, your Mellco or an other NAS will be reachable through the new USB-Ethernet adapter so no loss of functionality
  
• I've no knowledge of your physical situation and can't assure that the above solution is applicable
  
• Again everybody has different pair of ears, brains and listening rooms so this MIGHT improve SQ but no guarantees. Tasting is prove to the pudding aka listening is prove ...
  

Kind regards,
Jan

Hi Jan

Thank you for the very detailed post. I do really appreciate it but I am afraid that is way to much effort for me to even comprehend. I am not that technical and I would more than likely cause more problems than I solved......After all of this I would probably be no further forward. I do appreciate the lengths you have went to though.

[petrik]

But what I want to suggest is the following configuration option that improved my Rock/Roon SQ and is also applicliable on a Apple/Linux/Windows device (determined by how one runs Roon).

• Configure your "old" ethernet device with new unused IP address / Subnet attributes . (In my case 192.168.254.1/255.255.255.0, remove gateway and DNS server attributes)
  
• Configure the "new" ethernet device with the IP address / Gateway/ Subnet / DNS Server attributes that were defined at your "old" ethernet device. (In my case 192.168.1.3/192.168.1.254/255.255.255.0/192.168.1.254)
  

Very interesting, thank you for sharing this!

May I kindly ask how are you doing this configuration when using Roon ROCK? I had understood that Roon ROCK is not configurable, so are you doing this configuration in BIOS?

[Jantje BEton]

But what I want to suggest is the following configuration option that improved my Rock/Roon SQ and is also applicliable on a Apple/Linux/Windows device (determined by how one runs Roon).

• Configure your "old" ethernet device with new unused IP address / Subnet attributes . (In my case 192.168.254.1/255.255.255.0, remove gateway and DNS server attributes)
  
• Configure the "new" ethernet device with the IP address / Gateway/ Subnet / DNS Server attributes that were defined at your "old" ethernet device. (In my case 192.168.1.3/192.168.1.254/255.255.255.0/192.168.1.254)
  

Very interesting, thank you for sharing this!

May I kindly ask how are you doing this configuration when using Roon ROCK? I had understood that Roon ROCK is not configurable, so are you doing this configuration in BIOS?

Using the browser of your choice you can go to ROCK using http://<ipaddress>

At the bottom of the page you are able to configure the network interfaces, the USB adapter will also show up as Ethernet2