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40,000 Tweaks For Free!
#11
There was no intention, on my part, as the original poster, to mix up dissimilar things.

That is why, in my post, I referred to "a digital code only has three core components - intensity, frequency and time".

In fact, my suspicion is that the brain is less tolerant of timing errors than (relative) frequency errors - as I thought was audibly evident and demonstrable when the Devialet range was upgraded to Expert Pro status. As for overall intensity errors, I think this depends on the music. Peter Walker of Quad used to say there was only one correct volume for a piece of recorded music on certain equipment in a certain room, albeit this was generally thought to be a reference to only acoustic music recorded live.

My point really is that what is surprising in 4,300 threads on Devialet Chat, so maybe 50,000 posts, is that I cannot recall more than a handful of references to the tone controls on the Devialet, and even fewer references to the balance control, though I bet 10% of posters will have some channel imbalance because of room acoustics, which might be ameliorated, if not solved, with the balance control. For example, if you are in a room with a brick wall on one side and a studded wall on the other, there is likely to be some imbalance.

So I have some sympathy with Pim's post that the "conspiracy" to rubbish tone controls, back in the days of Quad and Sugden versus Naim and Exposure, has lingered on such that many of us feel that tone controls are out of bounds.
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#12
(29-Mar-2018, 20:56)IanG-UK Wrote: That is why, in my post, I referred to "a digital code only has three core components - intensity, frequency and time".

Disclaimer: I am not a mathematician. Technically, though, wouldn't it be more correct to say that it has only two components -- either intensity and time, or intensity and frequency -- since the representations of a given signal in the time and frequency domains are intimately related (e.g. by Fourier transform)?

None of which detracts from the point you were making, of course...
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#13
(29-Mar-2018, 20:56)IanG-UK Wrote: There was no intention, on my part, as the original poster, to mix up dissimilar things.

That is why, in my post, I referred to "a digital code only has three core components - intensity, frequency and time".

In fact, my suspicion is that the brain is less tolerant of timing errors than (relative) frequency errors - as I thought was audibly evident and demonstrable when the Devialet range was upgraded to Expert Pro status. As for overall intensity errors, I think this depends on the music. Peter Walker of Quad used to say there was only one correct volume for a piece of recorded music on certain equipment in a certain room, albeit this was generally thought to be a reference to only acoustic music recorded live.

My point really is that what is surprising in 4,300 threads on Devialet Chat, so maybe 50,000 posts, is that I cannot recall more than a handful of references to the tone controls on the Devialet, and even fewer references to the balance control, though I bet 10% of posters will have some channel imbalance because of room acoustics, which might be ameliorated, if not solved, with the balance control. For example, if you are in a room with a brick wall on one side and a studded wall on the other, there is likely to be some imbalance.

So I have some sympathy with Pim's post that the "conspiracy" to rubbish tone controls, back in the days of Quad and Sugden versus Naim and Exposure, has lingered on such that many of us feel that tone controls are out of bounds.

I think Walker's comment has nothing to do with the signal and everything to do with our hearing sensitivity. Our sensitivity to high and low frequency sound is less than our sensitivity to frequencies in the mid range, and our sensitivity to high and low frequencies reduces as the sound level decreases. That means that a volume control also acts as a tone control to a degree—turn the volume down and you effectively turn the bass and treble down, turn the volume up and you turn the bass and treble up. You will only hear the tonal balance that the mixing engineer worked to produce if you are listening at the same level as the engineer was when he mixed the music.

And of course that tonal balance may not be to your own personal preference, you may prefer more or less bass and/or treble. You may also prefer a lower or higher volume level than the engineer was listening at when he/she mixed the record. Whether or no you just want to change the tonal balance or the listening level or both, tone controls can definitely have a part to play.

If you're a purist, however, and don't believe in tone controls then you're definitely going to find that different recordings sound best at different listening levels simply because they're going to sound bass and treble shy if the listening level is too low or overly bass and/or bright if the listening level is too high. You just need to worry about whether the listening level at which things are going to sound right to you is going to fall within your personal comfort zone or not. 

I'm not against tone controls but a lot of the time they're a fairly blunt instrument with non-adjustable hinge points that don't provide quite the right range of correction that you want. Devialet do allow you to adjust the hinge frequency which can help a lot. I suspect quite a few of us also pay attention to tonal balance when doing speaker setup since proximity to walls and also toe in and rake adjustments have effects on the tonal balance we hear at the listening position. Paying attention to speaker setup can have a noticeable impact on how much or how little you use tone controls, just as listening level does, and I think it's best to address those factors first but there will still be cases where tone controls can be invaluable. I'd rather have tone controls and not want or need to use them because I can arrange speaker placement and listening level to suit my preferences than not have tone controls and find myself wanting to adjust the tonal balance because I can't arrange things to my satisfaction any other way.
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