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New Devialet 400
#21
Electronic components change also by the fact that they are being used.
D400; Stereolab Tombo Tron coaxial for master -> slave; Kubala-Sosna Elation interconnects, power, and speaker cables; Spendor D7 speakers; Bryston BDP-2 w. latest sound card & upgraded fuses; Bybee Stealth Power Purifier conditioner connected with IsoTek EVO3 Syncro SE to wall socket
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#22
(08-Jan-2015, 13:13)PhilP Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 12:22)DBdub Wrote: Some believe in burn in personally I don't and there should be no technical reason why this is the case. 

I admit that its difficult to find published technical analysis to support the notion of burn in periods for audio equipment though there are post from thousands of 'audiophiles' who believe that they have experienced it Smile

However, several Devialet owners including me have noticed that the temperature at which the amps run is quite high and variable when fresh out of the box but then settles down to a lower level after a period of a few weeks or so.  It seems likely that something is going on akin to a burning-in period and this has measurable (non-subjective) side-effects. 

I think Devialet themselves refer to a 75hr burn in period. Similarly, Naim who's kit I owned previously and who I don't particularly think of as purveyors of snake-oil say in their manuals "Naim equipment takes a considerable time to run in before it performs at its best. The duration varies, but under some conditions the sound may continue to improve for over a month'. Presumably this is something both manufacturers have noted and believe themselves otherwise why would they say it?

Personally I think it's just an extension of the two things that actually do need burn in / run in time. Which are speakers, the reason for this is a woofer needs a certain amount of time to flex to allow it to output the lower frequencies better. Secondly phono carts, stylus also need time to loosen as they settle down the stylus tracks grooves (and especially in perfect presses) better and at first can sound somewhat brighter as the stiffness of the stylus can have same affect as placing tracking weight under spec. I think the "your X amp needs x hours to burn in " has more too do with allowing time for an individual to get used to the sound of a particular piece of hardware then anything else. The cynic in me would say that this has extended to amps, CD players and other sources as its a convenient way for retailers to allow an consumer law right of return for full refund to expire. I think that burn in has more to do with people becoming used to a signature sound then any fundamental change in circuitry bringing about audible difference in sound. As always YMmV and whatever makes you happy is the most important thing Smile
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#23
(08-Jan-2015, 14:19)Mikeeo Wrote: For sure there is a 'settling' time and I estimate that my units took some 300 hours to 'bed' in. 
I started with a 170, that was running in the 45 degrees C's but with the 200 upgrade and its first software (7.0) the 200 was running very high in a matter of 60 degrees C's but with the next software (7.1) everything cooled down again to 45 C's. What software/firmware are you running?
My units did run a bit hotter, like 5 deg C higher in the beginning. I also notice that the units need 30-60 min after being cold to gain its full flavor (with 170 about 15 min).

My master and companion run at almost the same temperature even if my companion runs 4 deg C more than the master for the D amp.

Even at very sound pressures at home (-5 to 0 dB on attenuation) both units just creeps over 50 deg C a bit.

I have my units side by side which I for sure would recommend for cooling purposes.

/Mike

I find my 800 sounds totally different when running hot or normal it's like two different amps!
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#24
(08-Jan-2015, 22:20)DBdub Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 13:13)PhilP Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 12:22)DBdub Wrote: Some believe in burn in personally I don't and there should be no technical reason why this is the case. 

I admit that its difficult to find published technical analysis to support the notion of burn in periods for audio equipment though there are post from thousands of 'audiophiles' who believe that they have experienced it Smile

However, several Devialet owners including me have noticed that the temperature at which the amps run is quite high and variable when fresh out of the box but then settles down to a lower level after a period of a few weeks or so.  It seems likely that something is going on akin to a burning-in period and this has measurable (non-subjective) side-effects. 

I think Devialet themselves refer to a 75hr burn in period. Similarly, Naim who's kit I owned previously and who I don't particularly think of as purveyors of snake-oil say in their manuals "Naim equipment takes a considerable time to run in before it performs at its best. The duration varies, but under some conditions the sound may continue to improve for over a month'. Presumably this is something both manufacturers have noted and believe themselves otherwise why would they say it?

Personally I think it's just an extension of the two things that actually do need burn in / run in time. Which are speakers, the reason for this is a woofer needs a certain amount of time to flex to allow it to output the lower frequencies better. Secondly phono carts, stylus also need time to loosen as they settle down the stylus tracks grooves (and especially in perfect presses) better and at first can sound somewhat brighter as the stiffness of the stylus can have same affect as placing tracking weight under spec. I think the "your X amp needs x hours to burn in " has more too do with allowing time for an individual to get used to the sound of a particular piece of hardware then anything else. The cynic in me would say that this has extended to amps, CD players and other sources as its a convenient way for retailers to allow an consumer law right of return for full refund to expire. I think that burn in has more to do with people becoming used to a signature sound then any fundamental change in circuitry bringing about audible difference in sound. As always YMmV and whatever makes you happy is the most important thing Smile

Ok how does that explain the difference in temperature I see now in a warmer country than they were in before, driving a brand new set of speakers that are a more difficult load than my old ones. No don't tell me they programmed that in as well - or they are controlling it from Paris !!!!! BS

Nick
UK kit - Technics SP10 - Technics EPA-501  - AT33SA - NUC5i3 - W10 - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet 1000 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable (0.5 metre each side) - Magico S5

Spain kit - NUC7i5 - W10  - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet D250 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable - Ergo IX speakers
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#25
(08-Jan-2015, 23:47)NickB Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 22:20)DBdub Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 13:13)PhilP Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 12:22)DBdub Wrote: Some believe in burn in personally I don't and there should be no technical reason why this is the case. 

I admit that its difficult to find published technical analysis to support the notion of burn in periods for audio equipment though there are post from thousands of 'audiophiles' who believe that they have experienced it Smile

However, several Devialet owners including me have noticed that the temperature at which the amps run is quite high and variable when fresh out of the box but then settles down to a lower level after a period of a few weeks or so.  It seems likely that something is going on akin to a burning-in period and this has measurable (non-subjective) side-effects. 

I think Devialet themselves refer to a 75hr burn in period. Similarly, Naim who's kit I owned previously and who I don't particularly think of as purveyors of snake-oil say in their manuals "Naim equipment takes a considerable time to run in before it performs at its best. The duration varies, but under some conditions the sound may continue to improve for over a month'. Presumably this is something both manufacturers have noted and believe themselves otherwise why would they say it?

Personally I think it's just an extension of the two things that actually do need burn in / run in time. Which are speakers, the reason for this is a woofer needs a certain amount of time to flex to allow it to output the lower frequencies better. Secondly phono carts, stylus also need time to loosen as they settle down the stylus tracks grooves (and especially in perfect presses) better and at first can sound somewhat brighter as the stiffness of the stylus can have same affect as placing tracking weight under spec. I think the "your X amp needs x hours to burn in " has more too do with allowing time for an individual to get used to the sound of a particular piece of hardware then anything else. The cynic in me would say that this has extended to amps, CD players and other sources as its a convenient way for retailers to allow an consumer law right of return for full refund to expire. I think that burn in has more to do with people becoming used to a signature sound then any fundamental change in circuitry bringing about audible difference in sound. As always YMmV and whatever makes you happy is the most important thing Smile

Ok how does that explain the difference in temperature I see now in a warmer country than they were in before, driving a brand new set of speakers that are a more difficult load than my old ones. No don't tell me they programmed that in as well - or they are controlling it from Paris !!!!! BS

Nick


Nick I'd say it's the ambient temp and fact it's heating up cause it's working harder to drive lower ohms.

Or there is the Paris theory Smile
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