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Martin Logan Summit X
#1
I am a newbie. I hope this post is appropriate. If not, someone please tell me.

I have Martin Logan Summit X's and have been wanting to substitue solidstate for my current Audio Research 200 watt mnonblocks and ARC preamp, with a Bryston BDA-2 DAC and MacMini running Amararra.

About 9 months ago, the local dealer brought in a Devialet 250 to audition on his store demo Summit X's. He called me in to listen. It was breathtaking. In 40+ years of doing this, I had rarely, if ever, heard anything better. My wife was there and heard the same. All she wanted was a home audition. Regrettable, the dealer had to send the demo 250 back and that was that. No home auditoin. No purchase. 7 months later the dealer advised that he had a D200 for me to home audition. Off to the races, or so I thought. It was nice, but not breathtaking. It was a bit too forward and incisive in the upper midrange and treble, particularly female vocals. To continue to quote Robert Harley's recent Absolute Sounds review: It tended to "emplasize the harmonics of the strings rather than the instruments’ bodies. Cymbals were more prominent in the mix than through my reference amplifiers, and vocals had a touch of sibilance."

It also seemd a bit flat and uninvolving. I started getting fatigued about an hour into the listening session. There was no toe tapping and no singing-a-long by the wife. She was nonplussed. It seemed like the D200 was straining to contend with the low impedance of the ML's at higher volumes. One interesting thing of note: I had to turn down the Summit X powered subwoofers to get proper bass balance.

I am now waiting for a D200 companion to arrive to see if that solves the issue. It seemded to do it for Mr. Harley. I hope I have the same experience. I am told that the D400 configuration will stomp the D250 by itself.

I saw some ML Montis owners post about their positive experiences. Please share any thoughts you might have.

Oh.. by the way I do not think it is the speakers cables. They are Tranparent Reference, albeit the older XL technolgy.

I also plan to hook up my old, but pristine, pair of B&W Signature 30's to see how those boxes do. It should be wonderful. For now though, the real issue is what to use to drive the Summit X's.

I will post the results of the D400 audition in 2 weeks or so.
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#2
Hello chiphoust,

Do you know how new was the 200 you listened to?  Several people have found that brand new ones can take a while to settle in, before which they have some of the sound character you mentioned.  (Others, myself included, were lucky enough to enjoy the sound straight out of the box.)  Just a thought, might be nothing to do with it if it was a demo unit with a few weeks running on it.

There are several people on the forum using Devialets with Martin Logan speakers, although off the top of my head I don't recall anyone with Summit X.  amabrok and jwg1749 spring to mind immediately; they might be able to offer some more specific suggestions.

Ian
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#3
I ran my ML Montis with a Dev 200 for 6 months. I liked it at first, which i put down to the switch to the MLs from trad electrodynamic speakers, but I began to get worn down by the problems you describe above. I decided to try adding a 200 Companion. The improvement was minimal. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech power amp on demo. The Magtech was far and away better at driving the Montis: smoother, more composed, better soundstage, far superior dynamics -- everything really. I bought the Magtech and am delighted with it.

I still have the Dev 200 in my 'second' system driving Sonus fabers, and very lovely it is, but not a patch on the ML and Magtech system.

Matt

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
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#4
It was a demo sent in by Devailet. That said, I do not know how many hours were on it. I have read the post about break-in. It sounded great on some Focal's at the dealers shop. In fact, it was stunning on those, just not my Summt X's.

(08-Jan-2015, 00:10)thumb5 Wrote: Hello chiphoust,

Do you know how new was the 200 you listened to?  Several people have found that brand new ones can take a while to settle in, before which they have some of the sound character you mentioned.  (Others, myself included, were lucky enough to enjoy the sound straight out of the box.)  Just a thought, might be nothing to do with it if it was a demo unit with a few weeks running on it.

There are several people on the forum using Devialets with Martin Logan speakers, although off the top of my head I don't recall anyone with Summit X.  amabrok and jwg1749 spring to mind immediately; they might be able to offer some more specific suggestions.

Ian
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#5
I am very fussy about these things, as you might tell. I am sure the D200 can run my B&W Siganture 30's and sound terrific, particulary with the sub out optoin engaged. I likely will buy it just for that.

My task though, as appointed to me by my wife, is to recapture the Martin Logan/solid-state sound we once had with some Prodigy's. I was using an Audio Research D400 amp with an ARC tupe pre-amp and ARC tube dac. It was pretty darn good for what was availbe back then. The ARC D400 easily drove the 1 ohm load, the problem being it was better at louder versus book reading volumes.

The Summit X's are far superior. And, they do sound fantastic with my ARC VTM200's, but there is a lack of grip due to the low damping factor, plus there is some hig-end roll-off, as one might expect.

There is not a Magtech dealer here, so I would have to travel to auditoin that amp.

Thanks for the reply. It helped.


(08-Jan-2015, 00:40)Jwg1749 Wrote: I ran my ML Montis with a Dev 200 for 6 months. I liked it at first, which i put down to the switch to the MLs from trad electrodynamic speakers, but I began to get worn down by the problems you describe above. I decided to try adding a 200 Companion. The improvement was minimal. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech power amp on demo. The Magtech was far and away better at driving the Montis: smoother, more composed, better soundstage, far superior dynamics -- everything really. I bought the Magtech and am delighted with it.

I still have the Dev 200 in my 'second' system driving Sonus fabers, and very lovely it is, but not a patch on the ML and Magtech system.

Matt
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#6
(08-Jan-2015, 01:09)chiphoust Wrote: I am very fussy about these things, as you might tell.  I am sure the D200 can run my B&W Siganture 30's and sound terrific, particulary with the sub out optoin engaged.  I likely will buy it just for that.

My task though, as appointed to me by my wife, is to recapture the Martin Logan/solid-state sound we once had with some Prodigy's.  I was using an Audio Research D400 amp with an ARC tupe pre-amp and ARC tube dac.  It was pretty darn good for what was availbe back then.  The ARC D400 easily drove the 1 ohm load, the problem being it was better at louder versus book reading volumes.

The Summit X's are far superior.  And, they do sound fantastic with my ARC VTM200's, but there is a lack of grip due to the low damping factor, plus there is some hig-end roll-off, as one might expect.

There is not a Magtech dealer here, so I would have to travel to auditoin that amp.

Thanks for the reply.  It helped.           

Sanders do worldwide 30-day sale-or-return demos. You really do need to hear the Magtech!

Matt

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
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#7
I checked the Magtech site. Interesting. I like what I see. Thanks for the tip.

(08-Jan-2015, 01:15)Jwg1749 Wrote:
(08-Jan-2015, 01:09)chiphoust Wrote: I am very fussy about these things, as you might tell.  I am sure the D200 can run my B&W Siganture 30's and sound terrific, particulary with the sub out optoin engaged.  I likely will buy it just for that.

My task though, as appointed to me by my wife, is to recapture the Martin Logan/solid-state sound we once had with some Prodigy's.  I was using an Audio Research D400 amp with an ARC tupe pre-amp and ARC tube dac.  It was pretty darn good for what was availbe back then.  The ARC D400 easily drove the 1 ohm load, the problem being it was better at louder versus book reading volumes.

The Summit X's are far superior.  And, they do sound fantastic with my ARC VTM200's, but there is a lack of grip due to the low damping factor, plus there is some hig-end roll-off, as one might expect.

There is not a Magtech dealer here, so I would have to travel to auditoin that amp.

Thanks for the reply.  It helped.           

Sanders do worldwide 30-day sale-or-return demos. You really do need to hear the Magtech!

Matt
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#8
I have my ML Montis driven by D400. I have to say I was blown away with the sound quality at the beginning and then started to feel that high notes are a bit harsh. This is when Matt was trying the Magtech and I thought it could be due to the low impedance of the Montis and it could be. But theoretically, the D400 has a very low interference output stage which leads to enough damping factor to theatricality drive the load of Montis.

Later I switched from the standard RCA-RCA master/slave Link to the RCA-XLR and this brought immediate noticeable improvement to sound quality with better and bigger sound stage, more tonal balance and more tamed high notes.

The remnants of whatever harshness I may still experience I attribute to the suboptimal acoustics of my room (please see my system link in my signature to understand what I mean) so many bare window glass and floor tiles. Soon I will move to a new place with a dedicated music room with much better acoustics and then I will be able to report back on the anticipated improvements.

Having said all that, i still rate this combo as one of the best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Aurender X100L / Transrotor Crescendo TT / Denon DCD1520 / Macbook Pro >> D400 >> Martin Logan Montis
amabrok's system - Latest update (May 2015, Page 11, Post #109)

Dubai, UAE
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#9
I was not able to find your system photos, but understand your thoughts there. The upper octaves hardness corresponds to playing your systme at higher SPL's, right? I ask because that is where my system fails me regardless of the amplifier used. I am wondering if there is something inherent about the Montis/Summit X's that gets harsh at higher SPL's. My first thought was that is was my Audio Research Corp VTM200 monoblocks just giving up the ghost tyring to play at high SPL levels. It is a known issue. The same happened when I inserted my VT200 and VT100mkiii. I then inserted some Krell monoblocks. That was the worst. Then I heard the D250 at the dealer's shop, but only for abouit 30 minutes. Very impressive. Then the failed D200 audition. There were problems at both low and high SPL's.

So... off to do the D400 audition this weekend or next, but I suspect Matt's comments may prove true for me too. I hope not though.

I am currious about your RCA-XLR connectoin reference in that I know very little about how the companion gets connected. Are you using an RCA/XLR adapter and going from the RCA out on the main to the AES/EBU connectoin on the compantion? Can you go straight AES/EBU from the main to the AES/EBU on the companion?

Thanks for the help.


(08-Jan-2015, 08:47)amabrok Wrote: I have my ML Montis driven by D400. I have to say I was blown away with the sound quality at the beginning and then started to feel that high notes are a bit harsh. This is when Matt was trying the Magtech and I thought it could be due to the low impedance of the Montis and it could be. But theoretically, the D400 has a very low interference output stage which leads to enough damping factor to theatricality drive the load of Montis.

Later I switched from the standard RCA-RCA master/slave Link to the RCA-XLR and this brought immediate noticeable improvement to sound quality with better and bigger sound stage, more tonal balance and more tamed high notes.

The remnants of whatever harshness I may still experience I attribute to the suboptimal acoustics of my room (please see my system link in my signature to understand what I mean) so many bare window glass and floor tiles. Soon I will move to a new place with a dedicated music room with much better acoustics and then I will be able to report back on the anticipated improvements.

Having said all that, i still rate this combo as one of the best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#10
(08-Jan-2015, 18:21)chiphoust Wrote: So...  off to do the D400 audition this weekend or next, but I suspect Matt's comments may prove true for me too.  I hope not though.

I am currious about your RCA-XLR connectoin reference in that I know very little about how the companion gets connected.  Are you using an RCA/XLR adapter and going from the RCA out on the main to the AES/EBU connectoin on the compantion?  Can you go straight AES/EBU from the main to the AES/EBU on the companion?

Thanks for the help.

Looking forward to knowing your feedback on the D400 audition.

for the Master/Slave link you can either have RCA to RCA or RCA @ master side and AES/EBU @ slave side. Devialet does not support AES/EBU to AES/EBU

for more on this, i suggest you have a look on this thread

http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=151

on page 19 post #182 i posted details on my master/slave link and how i used a Neutrik RCA/XLR adapter
Aurender X100L / Transrotor Crescendo TT / Denon DCD1520 / Macbook Pro >> D400 >> Martin Logan Montis
amabrok's system - Latest update (May 2015, Page 11, Post #109)

Dubai, UAE
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