Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Devialet 250 vs 400 Monoblocks
#11
(02-Mar-2015, 18:56)f1eng Wrote: I believe the difference between the 250 and 200 is the cost of the casing.
The new units have a very much simplified and cheaper to manufacture case. The more complex case has better heat sinking, so the power output, and I presume ability for sustained high power running, is better, everything else is the same, AFAIK.

Hi Frank,

Are you saying the innards of a 200 and 250 are identical but because of the better case the 250 can deliver more power? Isn't there a bit more powerful amp in the 250 too? I can see how the 250 case would cost more but a bit more aluminium and a few extra hours in a CNC machine shouldn't cost 9 grand.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
Reply
#12
(03-Mar-2015, 00:01)Pim van Vliet Wrote:
(02-Mar-2015, 18:56)f1eng Wrote: I believe the difference between the 250 and 200 is the cost of the casing.
The new units have a very much simplified and cheaper to manufacture case. The more complex case has better heat sinking, so the power output, and I presume ability for sustained high power running, is better, everything else is the same, AFAIK.

Hi Frank,

Are you saying the innards of a 200 and 250 are identical but because of the better case the 250 can deliver more power? Isn't there a bit more powerful amp in the 250 too? I can see how the 250 case would cost more but a bit more aluminium and a few extra hours in a CNC machine shouldn't cost 9 grand.

I think the only difference is the case, and yes the improved heat sinking is why it can produce more power, as far as I understand.
Don't forget the case is the most expensive part of most hifi, CNC machining is much cheaper nowadays than in my day, so I am a bit out of date for sure.
When I worked in the business the case was the most expensive part of an amp, followed by the power transformer.
And manufacturing cost was about 10% of retail.
About 10 years ago, just as a matter of interest,  I got an estimate from one of our machine shops to make a batch of 10 cases and knobs like my Goldmund Mimesis 22 preamp. He had a really good look round, was shocked by how beautifully but expensively made it was and said 10 off would cost about £70,000 at their normal rates...
I did hear a rumour that one of the new Devialets had 1 less of the digital sections than another, but I thought that was 120 to 200 and the 200 and 250 had identical PCBs.

I would be surprised if the electronic boards cost more than a few hundred quid in volume production.

Most people who have never worked in engineering are surprised by the big difference between manufacturing cost and retail, but in fact the vast bulk of the money spent in industry is in the R&D, design and tooling phases, not least to make sure the manufacturing costs are not excessive.

About 10 years ago when we were idly discussing the change from 6-cylinder to 8-cylinder engines in the BMW M3 during a slack period in the paddock one of the BMW racing engineers told me it was to cut cost. The 6-cylinder engine was designed by motorsport for performance (it is half a McLaren F1 engine) and cost, on its own, almost as much as a complete 5-series to manufacture. The V8 was a version of a mass produced engine and cost a tiny fraction of the 6 to make.
The manufacturing cost of a car is, again, around 10% of the showroom price. They spend more per car on marketing it than making it...
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

Reply
#13
(03-Mar-2015, 17:02)f1eng Wrote:
(03-Mar-2015, 00:01)Pim van Vliet Wrote:
(02-Mar-2015, 18:56)f1eng Wrote: I believe the difference between the 250 and 200 is the cost of the casing.
The new units have a very much simplified and cheaper to manufacture case. The more complex case has better heat sinking, so the power output, and I presume ability for sustained high power running, is better, everything else is the same, AFAIK.

Hi Frank,

Are you saying the innards of a 200 and 250 are identical but because of the better case the 250 can deliver more power? Isn't there a bit more powerful amp in the 250 too? I can see how the 250 case would cost more but a bit more aluminium and a few extra hours in a CNC machine shouldn't cost 9 grand.

I think the only difference is the case, and yes the improved heat sinking is why it can produce more power, as far as I understand.
Don't forget the case is the most expensive part of most hifi, CNC machining is much cheaper nowadays than in my day, so I am a bit out of date for sure.
When I worked in the business the case was the most expensive part of an amp, followed by the power transformer.
And manufacturing cost was about 10% of retail.
About 10 years ago, just as a matter of interest,  I got an estimate from one of our machine shops to make a batch of 10 cases and knobs like my Goldmund Mimesis 22 preamp. He had a really good look round, was shocked by how beautifully but expensively made it was and said 10 off would cost about £70,000 at their normal rates...
I did hear a rumour that one of the new Devialets had 1 less of the digital sections than another, but I thought that was 120 to 200 and the 200 and 250 had identical PCBs.

I would be surprised if the electronic boards cost more than a few hundred quid in volume production.

Most people who have never worked in engineering are surprised by the big difference between manufacturing cost and retail, but in fact the vast bulk of the money spent in industry is in the R&D, design and tooling phases, not least to make sure the manufacturing costs are not excessive.

About 10 years ago when we were idly discussing the change from 6-cylinder to 8-cylinder engines in the BMW M3 during a slack period in the paddock one of the BMW racing engineers told me it was to cut cost. The 6-cylinder engine was designed by motorsport for performance (it is half a McLaren F1 engine) and cost, on its own, almost as much as a complete 5-series to manufacture. The V8 was a version of a mass produced engine and cost a tiny fraction of the 6 to make.
The manufacturing cost of a car is, again, around 10% of the showroom price. They spend more per car on marketing it than making it...

Frank, if this is true it must be that the 250 case is also not nearly manufactured in the same amounts as the 120/200 case or else how could one explain the 85 % added price for a 250 compared a 200?

Did Devialet ever point out other advantages than the case and better heat management?

/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
Reply
#14
It may also be a function of prices inherited from the D-Premier era - perhaps they had bigger margins then than Devialet can run with now - but, to protect the resale price of the D-Premier, the 250 has a maintained a bigger mark up than the 120 and 200?
Innuos Statement 2TB SSD with Next-Gen PSU (with Roon lifetime)
MacBook Pro (with Air)
Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico M3 pair
Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)