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A lot of hot AIR from Devialet?
#1
Although “white noise”, in some form, predates the start of the most populated thread within Streaming some nine months ago, it is probably fair to say that it has been a more prominent issue over that latter period, following the changes from the D-Premier to the 120/200/250/400/800 series in the second half of 2013, and Firmware 7.1.1 in ~August 2014, along with AIR 2.1.2 in ~May 2014 and AIR 2.1.3 in ~October 2014.

Those events, taken together, should have been Devialet’s opportunity to finally nail AIR which is, after all, one of their four USPs along with ADH, SAM and EVO (which, in relation to the configurator, does not work in a robust manner either).

I’ve been dealing directly and patiently with Devialet over many months to try to help trace this fault, which Devialet claims affects 2% - 5% of users - but which I suspect impacts far more users - though many of those may have given up with AIR altogether.

The 2% - 5% level probably refers to those of us who are still persisting - after all, Devialet did assure us that AIR would give us the very best sound quality and was Devialet's best input.

Over the months, I’ve tried:

- my 800, my two 250s separately, and a brand new 250 on loan;

- an iMac source and a MacBook Pro source;

- four routers - a BT Home Hub, an Airport Extreme Time Capsule, an Airport Express Time Capsule and a Draytek 2860;

- two sets of ethernet cables;

- three different mains supplies - raw mains, a PS Audio PPP and a Shunyata Triton/Typhon;

- many different SD cards and configurations, including five different ones repeatedly; and

- ethernet and wifi using both hi-res and 16/44.1.

(These amount to almost 4,000 combinations and I have not tried them all(!) but I guess I have tried over 100 and they all produce white noise, some very quickly, others after a few hours.)

All were tried with encouragement from Devialet and based on the amazing admission that Devialet had no idea as to the cause of the white noise. I have personally committed huge amounts of time to try to narrow down the fault; including giving regular feedback to Devialet and its engineers.

But that engineering department is like a ‘black hole” - lots of information goes in and no feedback comes out. Indeed I suspect that my efforts have been futile and that it is quite possible that Devialet has known, for many months, that this problem is a software fault which they are unable to solve without major development work which would take much time and resource. But perhaps they have been unwilling to admit it.

I also suspect that “AIR1” might well have been the right architecture for this product; and what we have now, “AIR2”, might be irreversibly flawed. Maybe they really need to develop “AIR3” and that is not their priority …

… because, of course, they have largely abandoned development/maintenance of the newly titled “Expert” range (or should it be the “Incompetent” range) and, in a desire to make bigger profits quickly, turned their attention to Phantom and Dialog and Spark … where it is already clear that Dialog and Spark are very problematic.

I do find it a bit rich that they are giving priority to two new products which cost up to about £3,250 per stereo pair and abandoning a key element of a product costing up to £27,500.

It’s rather like a committed BMW 7 Series user finding that he is only able to drive his car in first gear for eight months with the manufacturer telling him to try the windscreen wipers or the radio to see if that cures it; when the manufacturer then goes off and spends all their time hurriedly developing a new cheap Mini - only to launch it and find that the wheels fall off once you start driving it.

To Devialet’s credit, they did try a brand new 250 in my home - with the same white noise results - and then they decided, either graciously or naively, to take back my 800s to be tested in the factory. It was no surprise to learn that they found no hardware fault. 

What I find most infuriating is that, in reporting that result to me, their email said:

"Our whole software team is temporarily dedicated to improving the early version of the Phantom software, as we are currently receiving some first-user feedbacks on issues that we can address immediately. Please be assured that once this heavy workload decreases, the next topical issue on top of our software team's agenda is going to be AIR.

Or to put it another way:

“Our brand new customers, spending up to £3,250 with us, are more important than customers who have been with us for up to four years and have spent up to £27,500 and been brand advocates. But don’t worry, we will get to them eventually though it may take months. But you are used to it as we have done nothing for eight months already.

I remember the original marketing for AIR: “The best cable is no cable”.

Now the best marketing for AIR should be: “The best Devialet is no Devialet”.

This product  gets the award for the very best and the very worst item of hifi I have ever bought.
Innuos Statement 2TB SSD with Next-Gen PSU (with Roon lifetime)
MacBook Pro (with Air)
Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico M3 pair
Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
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#2
(21-Mar-2015, 17:17)IanG-UK Wrote: Although “white noise”, in some form, predates the start of the most populated thread within Streaming some nine months ago, it is probably fair to say that it has been a more prominent issue over that latter period, following the changes from the D-Premier to the 120/200/250/400/800 series in the second half of 2013, and Firmware 7.1.1 in ~August 2014, along with AIR 2.1.2 in ~May 2014 and AIR 2.1.3 in ~October 2014.

Those events, taken together, should have been Devialet’s opportunity to finally nail AIR which is, after all, one of their four USPs along with ADH, SAM and EVO (which, in relation to the configurator, does not work in a robust manner either).

I’ve been dealing directly and patiently with Devialet over many months to try to help trace this fault, which Devialet claims affects 2% - 5% of users - but which I suspect impacts far more users - though many of those may have given up with AIR altogether.

The 2% - 5% level probably refers to those of us who are still persisting - after all, Devialet did assure us that AIR would give us the very best sound quality and was Devialet's best input.

Over the months, I’ve tried:

- my 800, my two 250s separately, and a brand new 250 on loan;

- an iMac source and a MacBook Pro source;

- four routers - a BT Home Hub, an Airport Extreme Time Capsule, an Airport Express Time Capsule and a Draytek 2860;

- two sets of ethernet cables;

- three different mains supplies - raw mains, a PS Audio PPP and a Shunyata Triton/Typhon;

- many different SD cards and configurations, including five different ones repeatedly; and

- ethernet and wifi using both hi-res and 16/44.1.

(These amount to almost 4,000 combinations and I have not tried them all(!) but I guess I have tried over 100 and they all produce white noise, some very quickly, others after a few hours.)

All were tried with encouragement from Devialet and based on the amazing admission that Devialet had no idea as to the cause of the white noise. I have personally committed huge amounts of time to try to narrow down the fault; including giving regular feedback to Devialet and its engineers.

But that engineering department is like a ‘black hole” - lots of information goes in and no feedback comes out. Indeed I suspect that my efforts have been futile and that it is quite possible that Devialet has known, for many months, that this problem is a software fault which they are unable to solve without major development work which would take much time and resource. But perhaps they have been unwilling to admit it.

I also suspect that “AIR1” might well have been the right architecture for this product; and what we have now, “AIR2”, might be irreversibly flawed. Maybe they really need to develop “AIR3” and that is not their priority …

… because, of course, they have largely abandoned development/maintenance of the newly titled “Expert” range (or should it be the “Incompetent” range) and, in a desire to make bigger profits quickly, turned their attention to Phantom and Dialog and Spark … where it is already clear that Dialog and Spark are very problematic.

I do find it a bit rich that they are giving priority to two new products which cost up to about £3,250 per stereo pair and abandoning a key element of a product costing up to £27,500.

It’s rather like a committed BMW 7 Series user finding that he is only able to drive his car in first gear for eight months with the manufacturer telling him to try the windscreen wipers or the radio to see if that cures it; when the manufacturer then goes off and spends all their time hurriedly developing a new cheap Mini - only to launch it and find that the wheels fall off once you start driving it.

To Devialet’s credit, they did try a brand new 250 in my home - with the same white noise results - and then they decided, either graciously or naively, to take back my 800s to be tested in the factory. It was no surprise to learn that they found no hardware fault. 

What I find most infuriating is that, in reporting that result to me, their email said:

"Our whole software team is temporarily dedicated to improving the early version of the Phantom software, as we are currently receiving some first-user feedbacks on issues that we can address immediately. Please be assured that once this heavy workload decreases, the next topical issue on top of our software team's agenda is going to be AIR.

Or to put it another way:

“Our brand new customers, spending up to £3,250 with us, are more important than customers who have been with us for up to four years and have spent up to £27,500 and been brand advocates. But don’t worry, we will get to them eventually though it may take months. But you are used to it as we have done nothing for eight months already.

I remember the original marketing for AIR: “The best cable is no cable”.

Now the best marketing for AIR should be: “The best Devialet is no Devialet”.

This product  gets the award for the very best and the very worst item of hifi I have ever bought.

Ian,

I share your view and you've got my full support. Some comfort for me and my emotions towards Devialet comes from that I never intended to or used AIR. 

Devialet should pay you for this!


/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#3
I do sympathise Ian, it is most frustrating.
I do not get the white noise problem, and never have as you know, but Air has stopped working wirelessly for me due to a sudden and dramatic loss of wifi signal which may be my network.

If there is any consolation at least Air works with Ethernet, and all the other inputs are great.
Spark doesn't work properly at all, and probably doesn't work for 100% of the customers. There are no inputs which do not require Spark to work.
I only got the Phantoms on impulse since I have always been interested by loudspeakers and the Phantom is genuinely innovative and clever IMO, but Devialet must be royally screwed with Spark not working properly at all...

The sound is fantastic whilst they are working but I have never had more than 3 CDs worth of listening before a fatal crash (loss of one channel) requiring the whole tedious setup procedure to be repeated.

So I am in total agreement about the very best and the very worst in both the amps and the speakers, very sad and frustrating.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#4
I hear you Ian and you have my full support (for what it is worth). This is by all means unacceptable! I do not get white noise but i have had my fair share of issues with the infamous dual mono configurator bug. it is apparent that there is a mismatch between Devialet H/W and S/W and if they don't get their act together to sort all the S/W issues they have then I am afraid the whole thing will collapse.
Aurender X100L / Transrotor Crescendo TT / Denon DCD1520 / Macbook Pro >> D400 >> Martin Logan Montis
amabrok's system - Latest update (May 2015, Page 11, Post #109)

Dubai, UAE
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#5
Ian, I understand your frustration.  I have had my share of problems with the 200/400 but fortunately have managed to arrive at a set-up that is (almost entirely) trouble-free in normal use.  Or perhaps I should say I've limited my expectations to what I expect to work properly.

The question this prompts to me is: should those of us that have unresolved problems be complaining to our dealers rather than direct to Devialet?  Maybe some arm-twisting from dealers would be more effective than our individual efforts to "get through" to Devialet and have some of these problems taken reasonably seriously.  I must say I haven't taken that path yet so it's just a thought.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#6
Hi Thumb (excuse me not knowing your name!)

I've tried the dealer and distributor route in the UK. With no success, despite the best intentions of distributor and dealer.

More than most overseas (to the UK) manufacturers, Devialet seems to pay only modest regard to what their distributor and dealers say. Indeed, their recent activity with Harrods in the UK, which was intended solely to be the initial source for the Phantom/Dialog product line, has annoyed their existing outlets because they are selling the Expert line there as well.

I think Devialet's aspiration is to establish Devialet shops in key locations and effectively get them to act as resellers, rather like the model adopted by Apple and, less successfully, by Meridian and Bang & Olufsen.

So I'm sure dealers are discontented on the one hand, but hugely grateful that Devialet has revived the high end market and provided welcome profits. So I suspect they cannot arm-twist effectively and are not minded to do so anyway.
Innuos Statement 2TB SSD with Next-Gen PSU (with Roon lifetime)
MacBook Pro (with Air)
Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico M3 pair
Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
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#7
Omg I have just had my first issue of this tonight. Through Ethernet too.
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#8
Ian I completely agree with your statement. It is in line with my thread about D-Premier "upgrade" http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=863.
One thing is customer input for problems a product has but Devialet apparently relies on customers to troubleshoot (and then not do anything about it). What you have done is far more than any customer should do to solve a product problem. I was originally really impressed by Devialet and its customer support but my impression was reversed completely within the last year!
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#9
Like I say this is my first issue of this after setting up Jriver over 4 days ago.
Tonight though its really bad. First hour was fine , but in the last hour white noise and cutting out altogether.
Do the people who have this issue get it all of the time? Pleased I did not sell my Network player now, although I have just paid for JRiver and the remote app, and a better Ethernet cable. Its such a shame as the SQ was better than through my CLIC
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#10
I get it all the time. I switch back and forth sometimes between ETHERNET and WIFI and it clears it out a bit. Can't wait to get my Antipodes back so I can stream TIDAL without the white noise.
SYSTEM 1:Grimm MU-1 running Roon Server & Ready//Grimm TPM//GRIMM LS1be
SYSTEM 2: Antipodes DX Roon Server// MiniDSP// Grimm TPM// Dutch & Dutch 8C

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