A lot of hot AIR from Devialet?

[Womaz]

Ok it appears that I may be going to have the same issue. Second day in a row now. What is strange is that its been playing for about 7 hours with no problems at all today.
Again, and it may just be coincidence, but it was when I was playing a 24bit high res file.

[IanG-UK]

Maybe the problem is not in the Devialet hard or software but in the driver that needs to be installed on the Mac/PC.

Maybe dedicate a forum poll to it? Maybe it is  certain combination of hardware. Specific processors, conflicts with current soundcards or their chipsets as the AIR software actually installs another one?

Did anyone try changing PC/Mac to see if it changes?

Maybe, though that level of technicality is beyond my understanding. Indeed, in the beginning, I decided to buy what Devialet use themselves (MacBook Pro, Airport Express) to try to avoid such issues - but I still got them. I've tried two Macs and three Apple routers and three 250s and one 800 - all give the same result.

As I mentioned earlier, I suspect the change to AIR2 compromised the original AIR1 architecture - and even if AIR1 was not perfect it was flawed in a different and less intrusive way than what we have now. Over time, they might well have fixed it.

I was thinking of doing a poll to try to ascertain what proportion of users of different front ends experience white noise, using wifi or ethernet, and hi-res or 16/44.1, or have given up with AIR. But the Chat limits the number of poll choices to 10 which makes it a little tricky to get a clear picture.

If you feel like running a poll on the Chat, please do. Were I running one, my aim would be to illustrate to Devialet that the proportion of users experiencing white noise is far higher than their 2% - 5% estimate.

It clearly is an embarrassment for them since, if you look at Twitter for Harrods, you will find a tweet on there where someone complaints about white noise using his Expert 800 unit. It appears to have been retweeted to Twitters for Devialet and Quentin Sannie but I cannot find it there, so maybe they deleted it.

[Womaz]

I think you have showed quite incredible patience to be honest. Not so sure I will be as patient

[Womaz]

Since the first white noise today it comes back every 10 minutes or so. This is a real disappointment.
I will monitor this over the next few weeks and will try not to let this spoil my enjoyment of the 200, as I have been blown away by it so far.
I can just reintroduce my network player, but it also has implications for Tidal/Qobuz listening and this is one of the reasons I have recently upgraded my equipment.

[ogs]

Although “white noise”, in some form, predates the start of the most populated thread within Streaming some nine months ago, it is probably fair to say that it has been a more prominent issue over that latter period, following the changes from the D-Premier to the 120/200/250/400/800 series in the second half of 2013, and Firmware 7.1.1 in ~August 2014, along with AIR 2.1.2 in ~May 2014 and AIR 2.1.3 in ~October 2014.

Those events, taken together, should have been Devialet’s opportunity to finally nail AIR which is, after all, one of their four USPs along with ADH, SAM and EVO (which, in relation to the configurator, does not work in a robust manner either).

I’ve been dealing directly and patiently with Devialet over many months to try to help trace this fault, which Devialet claims affects 2% - 5% of users - but which I suspect impacts far more users - though many of those may have given up with AIR altogether.

The 2% - 5% level probably refers to those of us who are still persisting - after all, Devialet did assure us that AIR would give us the very best sound quality and was Devialet's best input.

Over the months, I’ve tried:

- my 800, my two 250s separately, and a brand new 250 on loan;

- an iMac source and a MacBook Pro source;

- four routers - a BT Home Hub, an Airport Extreme Time Capsule, an Airport Express Time Capsule and a Draytek 2860;

- two sets of ethernet cables;

- three different mains supplies - raw mains, a PS Audio PPP and a Shunyata Triton/Typhon;

- many different SD cards and configurations, including five different ones repeatedly; and

- ethernet and wifi using both hi-res and 16/44.1.

(These amount to almost 4,000 combinations and I have not tried them all(!) but I guess I have tried over 100 and they all produce white noise, some very quickly, others after a few hours.)

All were tried with encouragement from Devialet and based on the amazing admission that Devialet had no idea as to the cause of the white noise. I have personally committed huge amounts of time to try to narrow down the fault; including giving regular feedback to Devialet and its engineers.

But that engineering department is like a ‘black hole” - lots of information goes in and no feedback comes out. Indeed I suspect that my efforts have been futile and that it is quite possible that Devialet has known, for many months, that this problem is a software fault which they are unable to solve without major development work which would take much time and resource. But perhaps they have been unwilling to admit it.

I also suspect that “AIR1” might well have been the right architecture for this product; and what we have now, “AIR2”, might be irreversibly flawed. Maybe they really need to develop “AIR3” and that is not their priority …

… because, of course, they have largely abandoned development/maintenance of the newly titled “Expert” range (or should it be the “Incompetent” range) and, in a desire to make bigger profits quickly, turned their attention to Phantom and Dialog and Spark … where it is already clear that Dialog and Spark are very problematic.

I do find it a bit rich that they are giving priority to two new products which cost up to about £3,250 per stereo pair and abandoning a key element of a product costing up to £27,500.

It’s rather like a committed BMW 7 Series user finding that he is only able to drive his car in first gear for eight months with the manufacturer telling him to try the windscreen wipers or the radio to see if that cures it; when the manufacturer then goes off and spends all their time hurriedly developing a new cheap Mini - only to launch it and find that the wheels fall off once you start driving it.

To Devialet’s credit, they did try a brand new 250 in my home - with the same white noise results - and then they decided, either graciously or naively, to take back my 800s to be tested in the factory. It was no surprise to learn that they found no hardware fault. 

What I find most infuriating is that, in reporting that result to me, their email said:

"Our whole software team is temporarily dedicated to improving the early version of the Phantom software, as we are currently receiving some first-user feedbacks on issues that we can address immediately. Please be assured that once this heavy workload decreases, the next topical issue on top of our software team's agenda is going to be AIR.”

Or to put it another way:

“Our brand new customers, spending up to £3,250 with us, are more important than customers who have been with us for up to four years and have spent up to £27,500 and been brand advocates. But don’t worry, we will get to them eventually though it may take months. But you are used to it as we have done nothing for eight months already.”

I remember the original marketing for AIR: “The best cable is no cable”.

Now the best marketing for AIR should be: “The best Devialet is no Devialet”.

This product  gets the award for the very best and the very worst item of hifi I have ever bought.

Ian,
I'll add myself to the list of "Expert" owners that completely agree with your annoyance with Devialet. With so many developers available, two or three of them should be dedicated to deal with AIR and the problems related to the older models. After I updated my D-Premier to a 250 I tried AIR ethernet. It failed within 15 minutes. I've used USB or AES/EBU since then. For my self I have been trying to push Devialet to keep their promises regarding room correction. At some point Thierry stopped answering emails and other help desk personnel took over. I guess the volume of email became too much for Thierry, but the new help desk function seems so far removed from the influential people at Devialet that writing to support@devialet is now a waste of time.
I am impressed with your patience with Devialet. The 2-5% figure is more like 20-50%. I think Devialet is lying, both to themselves and us. Your efforts should have given results a long time ago!

[Womaz]

Although “white noise”, in some form, predates the start of the most populated thread within Streaming some nine months ago, it is probably fair to say that it has been a more prominent issue over that latter period, following the changes from the D-Premier to the 120/200/250/400/800 series in the second half of 2013, and Firmware 7.1.1 in ~August 2014, along with AIR 2.1.2 in ~May 2014 and AIR 2.1.3 in ~October 2014.

Those events, taken together, should have been Devialet’s opportunity to finally nail AIR which is, after all, one of their four USPs along with ADH, SAM and EVO (which, in relation to the configurator, does not work in a robust manner either).

I’ve been dealing directly and patiently with Devialet over many months to try to help trace this fault, which Devialet claims affects 2% - 5% of users - but which I suspect impacts far more users - though many of those may have given up with AIR altogether.

The 2% - 5% level probably refers to those of us who are still persisting - after all, Devialet did assure us that AIR would give us the very best sound quality and was Devialet's best input.

Over the months, I’ve tried:

- my 800, my two 250s separately, and a brand new 250 on loan;

- an iMac source and a MacBook Pro source;

- four routers - a BT Home Hub, an Airport Extreme Time Capsule, an Airport Express Time Capsule and a Draytek 2860;

- two sets of ethernet cables;

- three different mains supplies - raw mains, a PS Audio PPP and a Shunyata Triton/Typhon;

- many different SD cards and configurations, including five different ones repeatedly; and

- ethernet and wifi using both hi-res and 16/44.1.

(These amount to almost 4,000 combinations and I have not tried them all(!) but I guess I have tried over 100 and they all produce white noise, some very quickly, others after a few hours.)

All were tried with encouragement from Devialet and based on the amazing admission that Devialet had no idea as to the cause of the white noise. I have personally committed huge amounts of time to try to narrow down the fault; including giving regular feedback to Devialet and its engineers.

But that engineering department is like a ‘black hole” - lots of information goes in and no feedback comes out. Indeed I suspect that my efforts have been futile and that it is quite possible that Devialet has known, for many months, that this problem is a software fault which they are unable to solve without major development work which would take much time and resource. But perhaps they have been unwilling to admit it.

I also suspect that “AIR1” might well have been the right architecture for this product; and what we have now, “AIR2”, might be irreversibly flawed. Maybe they really need to develop “AIR3” and that is not their priority …

… because, of course, they have largely abandoned development/maintenance of the newly titled “Expert” range (or should it be the “Incompetent” range) and, in a desire to make bigger profits quickly, turned their attention to Phantom and Dialog and Spark … where it is already clear that Dialog and Spark are very problematic.

I do find it a bit rich that they are giving priority to two new products which cost up to about £3,250 per stereo pair and abandoning a key element of a product costing up to £27,500.

It’s rather like a committed BMW 7 Series user finding that he is only able to drive his car in first gear for eight months with the manufacturer telling him to try the windscreen wipers or the radio to see if that cures it; when the manufacturer then goes off and spends all their time hurriedly developing a new cheap Mini - only to launch it and find that the wheels fall off once you start driving it.

To Devialet’s credit, they did try a brand new 250 in my home - with the same white noise results - and then they decided, either graciously or naively, to take back my 800s to be tested in the factory. It was no surprise to learn that they found no hardware fault. 

What I find most infuriating is that, in reporting that result to me, their email said:

"Our whole software team is temporarily dedicated to improving the early version of the Phantom software, as we are currently receiving some first-user feedbacks on issues that we can address immediately. Please be assured that once this heavy workload decreases, the next topical issue on top of our software team's agenda is going to be AIR.”

Or to put it another way:

“Our brand new customers, spending up to £3,250 with us, are more important than customers who have been with us for up to four years and have spent up to £27,500 and been brand advocates. But don’t worry, we will get to them eventually though it may take months. But you are used to it as we have done nothing for eight months already.”

I remember the original marketing for AIR: “The best cable is no cable”.

Now the best marketing for AIR should be: “The best Devialet is no Devialet”.

This product  gets the award for the very best and the very worst item of hifi I have ever bought.

Ian,
I'll add myself to the list of "Expert" owners that completely agree with your annoyance with Devialet. With so many developers available, two or three of them should be dedicated to deal with AIR and the problems related to the older models. After I updated my D-Premier to a 250 I tried AIR ethernet. It failed within 15 minutes. I've used USB or AES/EBU since then. For my self I have been trying to push Devialet to keep their promises regarding room correction. At some point Thierry stopped answering emails and other help desk personnel took over. I guess the volume of email became too much for Thierry, but the new help desk function seems so far removed from the influential people at Devialet that writing to support@devialet is now a waste of time.
I am impressed with your patience with Devialet. The 2-5% figure is more like 20-50%. I think Devialet is lying, both to themselves and us. Your efforts should have given results a long time ago!

Its not just the older models that have the AIR issues, I have had my 200 under a week. I have emailed support so we will see what happens, but I am not hopeful.

[Rufus McDufus]

I agree this is completely unacceptable. I don't know why they don't just hire some temporary software developers in to work on the problem (which may be more difficult to do in France?). They simply don't realise how much ill-feeling and damage to the company's reputation this is causing.

Technically the problem is quite hard to nail down, but like most problems will probably have an easy fix. I've passed some of my findings to them and received no feedback. I know others have too.

Quite tempted to setup a petition - e.g change.org (!)

[ogs]

Its not just the older models that have the AIR issues, I have had my 200 under a week. I have emailed support so we will see what happens, but I am not hopeful.

Sorry I should maybe have been more clear here: 120/200/250/400/800 are all "older" models in this context. This is the so called "Expert" line. They all have the same issue with AIR. Phantom/Dialog/SPARK have their very own set of trouble as we have seen reported here at the forum mainly by f1eng . Extremely embarrassing for Devialet and very annoying for early customers of Phantom, but no good reason for Devialet not to fix the problems owners of "expert" products have experienced the last 12 months or so...

[Womaz]

Has the problem always been there or has it just started since one of the AIR software upgrades? If it is just since an upgrade I would imagine it could be sorted quite quickly if they had enough desire to do it. I am new to the 200 so not aware of the history.

[ogs]

Has the problem always been there or has it just started since one of the AIR software upgrades? If it is just since an upgrade I would imagine it could be sorted quite quickly if they had enough desire to do it. I am new to the 200 so not aware of the history.

What IanG-UK describes as "AIR1" was a version that relied on iTunes for playback, but actually included it's own player. iTunes was only used to send the file path to the AIR player. This solution worked for CD resolution (16/44.1) material. At the time WiFi was the only network option. When AIR 2.0 ("AIR2") was introduced it was re-written as a virtual sound card to be compatible with more players, but Devialet then no longer had control of the player part running on the client machine. In "AIR1" the amplifier had proper control of file playback as the player was part of AIR. One problem here  was that iTunes for Windows was not working as well with AIR as the OS X version.
It is possible that if Devialet had kept the "AIR1" concept and waited for the introduction of ethernet connection to the amplifiers the noise problem would not have turned up. Difficult to say really.