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As promised early-on I'm about to go internal on the D200 again. This time for a brief inspection looking for tell tale indicators of anything that might not be faring well. I seriously doubt I'll find anything but it bears a careful look-see under good lighting and magnification. Performance up till now has been flawless as well as head & shoulders above what it was previously in all SQ & temperature-related categories... normal operating temps remain 29/29/30 A/D/P under all pre-established settings and run times w/DPM off in a 25.5C room. I also mentioned early on I would be going back inside the PSU since its a 20 minute procedure once belly pan is removed. Some think I've somehow "screwed the pooch" as it relates to removing so much of the thermal pad material that Devialet used when they assembled the PSU. Of course I disagree with that contention vigorously and my temp sensors since reassembly would seem to support my belief. However I'm not so dogmatic that I'm unwilling to accept the possibilities even tho I fully expect PSU temp to spike sharply as a result. To that end I'm going to identically mimic the Devialet thermal pad placement in the PSU using the superior German thermal pad material. Its counter-intuitive to me to use such a big 'blob' of that material in such a small enclosure and choking off any chance of convection cooling I built into that cover since the pad is so good at absorbing heat and simultaneously so bad at shedding it in areas where it cannot be in direct contact with a conductive surface... easily over 70% of its surface area in an enclosed housing as I'll cover the convection inlets/outlets I made in the PSU housing with aluminum tape. But I'll model the thermal pad placement/thickness EXACTLY as Devialet did and show pics of original and latest PSU undersides prior to testing. If nothing else it'll be interesting to know for sure and have data that confirms the efficacy of thermal pad en-masse (Dev's way) vs sparingly with convection (my way) to compare conductive vs conductive-convection temperature efficiencies internally as well as topically on the case top surface quadrants.
I'd like to get in & out of this over the span of a weekend but can't designate this weekend quite yet. Due to Holiday plans I must conclude it this month which dictates this weekend or next.
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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Excellent idea. I've been wondering similar things, in particular, if I can modestly upgrade the thermal pads and get close enough, or start chassis drilling for improved air flow / convection cooling. I'll wait for your report and findings before I pursue a direction.
Thanks!
Kenreau
Synology DS412+> Aurender S10> AQ Wel AES > Devialet 200> AQ Castle Rock Bi-Wired > Vandersteen 5As.
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15-Oct-2015, 18:11
(This post was last modified: 15-Oct-2015, 18:41 by Manoet.)
I had something open up today so I'm going for it!
First off for those that might be a little reluctant/intimidated by going internal on the Expert line I kept times on my iPhone stopwatch to show there's really nothing to this.
Listed in minutes/seconds and not Hours/minutes/seconds. Using hand tools and not power-drivers. Done purposefully & carefully, not rushed in any way!
Removing belly pan: 01:42.44
Digital Board Removal: 00:12.07
PSU Cover: 01:07
Total time to get PSU cover out: 3 minutes and 2 seconds!
Pic shows PSU with the single high-end thermal pad that I used for initial reassembly and for the past couple weeks. Next pic I'll closely mimic what Devialet used quantity-wise but with the dramatically more efficient German pad as in the below picture. I don't have photo merging software but you should be able to compare the original PSU Thermal pad which I'll add to this thread at the end.
Beyond that the plan is to simply reinstall PSU turn stuff on and stream 24/7 until test end. Measure internal/external temps after an initial 3-5 hours and again several times tomorrow. If this runs cooler I'm done. But if as I suspect will happen the PSU runs any hotter I'll go back to the setup in this picture. I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of an 7-10% increase. Existing temp to beat is 31C which is my normal Power Supply temperature internally via GUI sensor. Over the past 2 weeks aggregate temps are 29/29/31 A/D/S based on 25.5C ambient at -26 to -32dB with DPM off after 3-5 hours continuous running.
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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Ok, I've tried to scale everything within a couple thousandths of an inch to insure this is a fair & equitable test either way. If there's strong objection either way I'll make every attempt to modify thermal pad sizes to be more fair based on majority preference. I have a couple hours to kill (removing PEMS on other equipment as luck would have it). If the majority signs off as-is I'll reinstall and start testing. I have a couple hours so by all means if you see anything unfair/unobjective speak up. Its 1:15pm my time and I'll plan on starting this near 4pm. I think that's 11pm for most of you guys. But please... no 10:30pm requests for changes as its not likely to happen. Thanks! If it looks overwhelmingly fair to most immediately I'll reassemble and run with it.
Let me know...
Compare this pic to the old pic in next post:
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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Original PSU thermal pad layout
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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Testing commenced at 23:12. Startup temps were unremarkably 26/26/26 since room temp is 25.55C. Update in 3-5 hours and over the course of the day tomorrow.
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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First temps after 3.5 hours even tho they've remained unchanged for the last 2.5 hours. As I figured, temps run right at 10% hotter with a full compliment of thermal transfer pads in place. Pads that are 17X more efficient than OEM pads! Proof the PSU enclosure dissipates heat faster thru the cover via convection cooling than it can possibly achieve via conduction thru its top only. I doubt many are surprised by that. What I am surprised about and still do not understand is how/why A/D board temps remain a degree or two and inexorably tied to the power supply temps!?! They did with OEM 200 before any modifications (43/44/45) and they've done it since in E-V-E-R-Y subsequent temp test, ie; vertical, horizontal, no convection, passive convection, forced air convection pushing or pulling. I'm completely stumped! I fully anticipated this test turning out the way it did except for the A/D boards. I seriously thought they'd stay pretty close to their original/normal 29/29C I've been running for two weeks or maybe climb a single degree, two tops. But they continually mimic the PSU temps in every test percentage-wise and I haven't the foggiest notion why that is or how it can be. I'm open to well thought out opinions as this has dogged me since reassembly.
Testing is such an obsessive pursuit! After another day of testing this configuration I've got to see if just a sliver of heat transfer pad I used originally on the rebuild can achieve cooler temps than 29/29/31C if I just use a single 2 x 25mm strip running centered vertically (in wall-mount position) on the ceramic pad which will increase flow thru the PSU housing significantly due to reduced obstruction, ie; cleaner airflow. It may not manifest itself as even a single degree reduction on the GUI but it could! Of course then the A/D temps will follow-suit and I'll be more flummoxed than I am now. See!?! It never ends!!
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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Hi Manoet,
I don't know if you've already written about this but can you please tell me what about the sound quality it is that makes it sound better to you? I find mine to sound better when it's hotter, not cooler. 'Better' to me is less sharpness on top and an overall more relaxed sound. I can understand that for some there need to be more highs to hear details but to me too much highs obscures the details. We're all different.
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,
Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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Yes its very strange as most other equipment seems to benefit by being "warmed up" so much so that people leave there stuff on all the time.
UK kit - Technics SP10 - Technics EPA-501 - AT33SA - NUC5i3 - W10 - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet 1000 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable (0.5 metre each side) - Magico S5
Spain kit - NUC7i5 - W10 - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet D250 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable - Ergo IX speakers
. My point is that it's misleading to talk about 