Hiss / buzz , how to get rid of?

[ogs]

A shorted input should be silent (or very close to silent). Any noise on a shorted input indicates a fault of some kind. I don't use the phono input myself, but I've followed the 'noise threads' for some time. It seems that some have a noisy phono input and some don't. If that is the case there is a variable in production that Devialet has to fix

[Greg]

A shorted input should be silent (or very close to silent). Any noise on a shorted input indicates a fault of some kind. I don't use the phono input myself, but I've followed the 'noise threads' for some time. It seems that some have a noisy phono input and some don't. If that is the case there is a variable in production that Devialet has to fix

I’ve tried shorted RCA plugs on phonostage input. No difference. The stage has the same amount of hiss as with the phono leads from the arm connected. My speakers are 4 metres from my listening position. Hiss becomes audible at -23dB and increasing as the volume is turned up. This is on my D250 Pro C/I. I had exactly the same issue with my previous D220 Pro C/I.

[Finn]

Why not bye a transformer and stop complaning and listen too music Without hiss , or talk With the dealer mabye there is something wrong With your dev ? I think if people Read about hiss and low output cartridges , In this forum .

[Confused]

Be aware. The more sensitive your speakers, the more promenant the hiss will be. My speakers are 90dB sensitive. I have to accept that Devialet designed their phonostage anticipating speakers with less sensitivity.

I’ve not tried the shorted plug test but have them readily available so I’ll give it a go tomorrow. Not sure what this will tell us other than what we already know. The D phonostage is basically noisy.

It is indeed true that the level of hiss for any given level of volume gain will be higher with more sensitive speakers.  However, with high efficiency speakers the volume level of the music will also be proportionally higher for any given level of volume gain.  So the "hiss to music" ratio will be more or less the same irrespective of speaker efficiency.  What matters is the output level of the cartridge, a low output for the cartridge means you need more gain on the phono stage, this most definitely increases the level of hiss.

[Confused]

A shorted input should be silent (or very close to silent). Any noise on a shorted input indicates a fault of some kind. I don't use the phono input myself, but I've followed the 'noise threads' for some time. It seems that some have a noisy phono input and some don't. If that is the case there is a variable in production that Devialet has to fix

I’ve tried shorted RCA plugs on phonostage input. No difference. The stage has the same amount of hiss as with the phono leads from the arm connected. My speakers are 4 metres from my listening position. Hiss becomes audible at -23dB and increasing as the volume is turned up. This is on my D250 Pro C/I. I had exactly the same issue with my previous D220 Pro C/I.

I tried this test a while ago, for me the hiss was audible at about -21dB, so a very similar result to yourself.  This is with the KEF Blades, which have a quoted efficiency of 91dB 1W/m, so in this regard very similar to your speakers, and the Ortofon Cadenza Black, which has a lowish 0.33 mV output.

All very consistent I think.  I will be switching to my new Ortofon Cadenza Bronze this weekend, which has a slightly higher 0.4mV output. (so about 20% higher output than the Black) This will obviously decrease the level of hiss, but I will be interested in just how much of a difference it makes in terms of how subjectively obvious the hiss is in normal use.

I have mentioned before that the hiss does not bother me when actually listening to records, I am just aware of it when cueing up and so on.  It obviously can't be helping the ultimate level of sound quality though.  I did try a Tom Evans Groove phono stage with my old D800.  Whist this eliminated the Devialet hiss issue, I found that the Devialet phono stage ultimately sounded better.  The Tom Evans was good though, so this is probably a subjective preference rather than one being definitively better than the other.

[Greg]

A shorted input should be silent (or very close to silent). Any noise on a shorted input indicates a fault of some kind. I don't use the phono input myself, but I've followed the 'noise threads' for some time. It seems that some have a noisy phono input and some don't. If that is the case there is a variable in production that Devialet has to fix

I’ve tried shorted RCA plugs on phonostage input. No difference. The stage has the same amount of hiss as with the phono leads from the arm connected. My speakers are 4 metres from my listening position. Hiss becomes audible at -23dB and increasing as the volume is turned up. This is on my D250 Pro C/I. I had exactly the same issue with my previous D220 Pro C/I.

I tried this test a while ago, for me the hiss was audible at about -21dB, so a very similar result to yourself.  This is with the KEF Blades, which have a quoted efficiency of 91dB 1W/m, so in this regard very similar to your speakers, and the Ortofon Cadenza Black, which has a lowish 0.33 mV output.

All very consistent I think.  I will be switching to my new Ortofon Cadenza Bronze this weekend, which has a slightly higher 0.4mV output. (so about 20% higher output than the Black) This will obviously decrease the level of hiss, but I will be interested in just how much of a difference it makes in terms of how subjectively obvious the hiss is in normal use.

I have mentioned before that the hiss does not bother me when actually listening to records, I am just aware of it when cueing up and so on.  It obviously can't be helping the ultimate level of sound quality though.  I did try a Tom Evans Groove phono stage with my old D800.  Whist this eliminated the Devialet hiss issue, I found that the Devialet phono stage ultimately sounded better.  The Tom Evans was good though, so this is probably a subjective preference rather than one being definitively better than the other.

Thank you @Confused That confirms my own thoughts on the D phonostage. I also have knowledge of @“NickB" ‘s system as I’ve listened to it many times.

My cartridge is also an Ortofon, a Kontrapunkt B with an output of 0.47mV, although I conclude the cartridge has little to do with the hiss. It is the phonostage that is noisy and the D phonostage is totally responsible.

I have recently introduced a Primare R32 phonostage amplifier fed into the D line stage. This has reduced hiss considerably and furthermore, in my experience, brings out more detail to the sound. I don’t like steppers as they cause variable impedance according to frequency. The separate phonostage is for me, the better option. A shame really. Devialet should have got this sorted once and for all and maybe they will eventually but I don’t hold out any hope on this. I feel sure my solution will be the best way forward. 

Finn,no complaint, just reporting my findings. Get this..... a dedicated phonostage works better than a pair of step up transformers.

[Finn]

Yes it Can be right , i only try step Up transformer. I have no hiss , but mabye it could be a good idea too try a seperart phonostage , just too find out if the Sound Will be better .

[petrik]

Has anyone tried to contact Devialet regarding this hizz/buzz issue? What did they say? Is it a bug, fault in hardware, or do they consider this "as designed"?

[ogs]

I’ve tried shorted RCA plugs on phonostage input. No difference. The stage has the same amount of hiss as with the phono leads from the arm connected. My speakers are 4 metres from my listening position. Hiss becomes audible at -23dB and increasing as the volume is turned up. This is on my D250 Pro C/I. I had exactly the same issue with my previous D220 Pro C/I.

If the phono input is single-ended (as a circuit design) shorting plugs normally silence the input. If it is a balanced (differential) input, shorting an RCA would only connect plus and minus together and any noise would probably remain.
I think I was told by Devialet some years ago that inputs were actually differential, but I can't find anything in my email archive stating this so I can not be certain. I will enable the phono input on my 250 during the weekend and do some testing. 400uV and 200 ohms (like Cadenza Bronze)

[ogs]

The phono input is single ended and shorting the input does not silence it as @Greg says. However at -21dB I can hardly hear the noise sitting a little over 3 meters from the speakers. My speakers are about 90dB 1W/m. I do not have a working record player to try at the moment so it's a bit difficult to know which volume setting I'd use.

EDIT: The noise is not 'hiss' but rather a darker sounding 'rash'. Quite pleasant in character actually.., but it would clearly be better without!