OCXO oscillator input theme

[zdenes]

Hello

I am very interested to know your opinion about the Denafrips GAIA vs Mutec MC3+USB.
Please share when you can.

Thanks

Well, the Denafrips GAIA is so much better than the Mutec MC3+USB with linear power supply (Uptone Audio JS-2) and even clocked with the Mutec Ref10 that I already bought one and removed the Mutec from my system. I left the Ref10 still in as it is also clocking the SOtM SMS-200 ultra and the Uptone Etherregen switch. 
With the GAIA, everything sounds more life-like. Timbre and tone improved the most and made the system sound a bit warmer which is a really good thing with the Devialet and the YG Acoustics speakers. Over 30 years into this hobby, I have gone through hundreds of A/B testing of all sorts of things. Sometimes I had to go back and forth a few times to be able to fully evaluate differences and decide which one I like better. Not this time. 30 secs into one of my test tracks, I knew that it was so much better, that I didn't even need to test it longer. Well, the Mutec gave me a similar 'wow' factor when I first put in between the streamer and the Devialet. The GAIA is probably better because it has two OCXO clocks inside that provide all audio frequencies (x1024, so it can do DSD1024 theoretically, practically DSD512) and there is no complicated PLL needed as in the Mutec. MSB explains it very well:
https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/clock-options/

Hello

I have just received the denafrips gaia. Yes, WOW. Really a great upgrade. Also using a transparent reference aes/abu.

When I switch from pcm to dsd and vice-versa I can hear a loud pop. Any ideas how to solve this? 
Using daphile with dop.

I also hear a pop at the PCM/DSD switching. Not loud and I hear it from the GAIA and not through the speakers (I think). It is just some kind of relay switch or whatever, I don't think it is a fault. On this topic, I use HQ Player (under Roon) in my system (see my signature) and with some listening test I decided that DSD files sound better when converted to PCM (192kHZ) by HQ Player. Although the GAIA can put it through and the Devialet can receive it up to DSD64, it converts it to PCM anyway. So there is really no point in using native DSD files.

[markush]

Shouldn’t Ethernet provide the best audio quality input for the Devialets?

[zdenes]

Shouldn’t Ethernet provide the best audio quality input for the Devialets?

The Ethernet connection provides excellent sound quality. However, the Core Infinity board doesn't have an OCXO clock (let alone two 44.1 and 48 kHz and multiples) for best jitter performance. At the same time, you'd really need a lot of extra investment to achieve better than the Ethernet connection. In my case around USD10,000. Was it worth it? Probably not. I started compiling my external streaming set-up before the CI board came out and was already pretty good by the release of the CI board. I had a chance to borrow an upgraded unit from the dealer and the results were close. My streaming set-up sounded smoother, more detailed, and with a better timbre of instruments. It is probably partly the streaming hardware and partly the software. Devialet can use Air or Roon Ready whereas my streamer also can use HQ Player NAA which I find significantly better than Roon Ready as an endpoint. I eventually decided not to upgrade to D1000 from D800 for this reason but @Confused did and he still uses an external streamer as far as I know.

[daniel.avasilichioaei]

Shouldn’t Ethernet provide the best audio quality input for the Devialets?

Why do you think Ethernet provides the best audio quality input for the Devialets? Why would it be better than other inputs that have the same digital specifications?

As far as I know, Ethernet is currently the only input that generates serious communication errors (at least in the Roon RAAT protocol). For me, such a thing is unacceptable in digital communication, which makes it the worst / most dangerous input.

[Confused]

Shouldn’t Ethernet provide the best audio quality input for the Devialets?

The Ethernet connection provides excellent sound quality. However, the Core Infinity board doesn't have an OCXO clock (let alone two 44.1 and 48 kHz and multiples) for best jitter performance. At the same time, you'd really need a lot of extra investment to achieve better than the Ethernet connection. In my case around USD10,000. Was it worth it? Probably not. I started compiling my external streaming set-up before the CI board came out and was already pretty good by the release of the CI board. I had a chance to borrow an upgraded unit from the dealer and the results were close. My streaming set-up sounded smoother, more detailed, and with a better timbre of instruments. It is probably partly the streaming hardware and partly the software. Devialet can use Air or Roon Ready whereas my streamer also can use HQ Player NAA which I find significantly better than Roon Ready as an endpoint. I eventually decided not to upgrade to D1000 from D800 for this reason but @Confused did and he still uses an external streamer as far as I know.

I'm not sure how I missed the reference above! Anyway, yes, my preferred route for feeding the Devialet is AES/EBU via an external streamer. I was experimenting with various "front end" configurations a while ago, basically comparing various configurations of the iFi Zen Stream, SOtM sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra, Mutec MC3+USB and REF10. Comparisons were made to feeding the Devialet via Ethernet / Roon RAAT. Whist messing about with what is some reasonably expensive streaming hardware, the one thing that I found particularly interesting was the difference that HQPlayer made to my ears. So even without the REF10/MC3+USB, the (relatively) cheap and cheerful Zen Stream on it's own in HQPlayer mode was to my ears significantly better than CI Board Roon RAAT.

[markush]

@Confused But the ZEN stream doesn’t provide AES/EBU
What is your current setup?

[Confused]

@Confused But the ZEN stream doesn’t provide AES/EBU
What is your current setup?

Correct, the Zen Stream does not have AES/EBU.

The test I referred to in my earlier post was the Zen Stream in HQPlayer mode, feeding the Devialet via coax S/PDIF.

My current setup is PC HQPlayer, Ethernet, Zen Stream USB to Mutec MC3+USB / REF10, AES/EBU to the Devialet.

[Vivialet]

Hi Confused,
what settings are you using in HQPlayer ? I tested it once together with Roon and with the recommended settings it was not very responsive anymore. It took several seconds until the music playback begins. I'm thinking about buying a Zen Stream as it is now finally Roon Ready.
It seems you connect the Zen to the Mutec MC3 via USB. Have you tried to connect via SPDIF ? And what power supply are you using for the Zen ? The included SMPS or something better ?

[Confused]

Hi Confused,
what settings are you using in HQPlayer ? I tested it once together with Roon and with the recommended settings it was not very responsive anymore. It took several seconds until the music playback begins. I'm thinking about buying a Zen Stream as it is now finally Roon Ready.
It seems you connect the Zen to the Mutec MC3 via USB. Have you tried to connect via SPDIF ? And what power supply are you using for the Zen ? The included SMPS or something better ?

For a while now I have been using HQPlayer to upsample to 24/192 using poly-sinc-short-mp, NS9.

I very often use HQPlayer together with Roon. Perceptually there is very low latency, you press play, music emerges from the speakers. This set-up has also been 100% stable for me, no dropouts or any other issues, it just works as it should.

I have tried the Zen Stream feeding the MC3+USB by both USB and S/PDIF. Subjectively I can detect very little difference in sound quality between the two. When swapping between the two I did have an almost subconscious feeling that USB was fractionally better, but this is easily within the margins that I could be imagining things.

I leave the Zen and MC3+USB powered up all of the time. One advantage of using USB is that when the system is not being used, there is a sync light on the Mutec that blinks when connected via S/PDIF, but it does not blink if USB is used. The blinking light is a little annoying, so USB wins here for practical reasons.

Later I saw the GoldenSound measurements of the MC3+USB, this indicated that measured performance is slightly better via USB in comparison to S/PDIF. Mindful that I see some practical advantages of using USB, this was good enough for me to stick with USB ever since.

I power the Zen Stream with one of the Paul Hynes SR-4's that I bought to go with my SOtM kit. A nice LPSU no doubt, but it is perhaps worth mentioning that the Zen Stream sounds just fine when powered by the cheap and cheerful SMPS that comes with it. Does the Zen sound better with the Paul Hynes? Maybe, just a tiny bit, but there is not a lot in it to my ears.

[Vivialet]

Thanks for the info. I have ordered a Zen, it should arrive tomorrow. I will try different configurations and report back.