Pair of Phantom Elevate vs KEF LS50 Wireless + SVS SB-13 Ultra sub

[rdavidhalljr]

OK, so here's the predicament that I am stuck in. I recently downsized my big rig and have one SB-13 leftover (had dual) I'm moving to a space with a smaller living room. Which is the preferable choice sound wise? The Phantoms or the LS50W+SB13?

My guess is that the LS50W+SB13 would take the win on this in most areas, but the phantoms are less space-intrusive and are arguably cooler looking. Is this the general consensus or do we think otherwise? before you mention it, the phantom golds aren't really in the budget, I wish they were, but money doesn't grow on trees!

My previous system was Mac Mini > Peachtree Nova125 > Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 > Dual SVS SB-13

[WTree]

One point people might not consider, which happened to me, is that the Phantoms bass drivers are side firing which makes it tricky to position them closer to the side walls. I moved homes and at the current place, I have challenge with the right side woofer of the right side Phantom. I wish there is a way to turn them off individually or at least just one speaker but this does not exist. 
Since I bought my Phantom Silvers brand new, if I sell them and get KEF LS50, it would be a big hit money wise. I am pretty sure that Phantoms beat KEF in low frequency range but this inflexibility in positioning makes me use it in night mode most of the times and it defeats the purpose. Think about this before you buy.

[antilles]

The LS50W solves the crossover issues the passive version had, which made that a complete non-starter. Sonically, it doesn’t definitively win, not sure why the assumption it would. It possibly does edge the Phantom in pure mid-high refinement, but the overall presentation is incomparable, in Phantom’s favour. So unless you have very specific musical tastes which would benefit, there’s no question in my mind which is the better buy. And I came very close to buying a few sets of LS50W’s just as a temporary solution. Rather than sound quality though, the final straw for me was the fact it was Made in China and only had a 1 year warranty on the electronics (2 in EU). Caveat emptor I suppose, but these are commercial directions I have no interest in supporting.

[rdavidhalljr]

Thank you very much for all feedback. Specifically, how would you say that the sound of the phantoms would be incomparable in presentation to LS50W with a highly capable subwoofer?
From my listening, the phantoms sound good, but are a bit lacking in midrange and treble refinement. I have also had a pair of phantom gold in my old space, and they are capable of producing prodigious slam with respectable deep bass authority, however, they were simply no match to the capability of a 13.5"driver with 1000wRMS. My thinking is that the greater high/mid refinement of the LS50W compared to the phantoms, in addition to the subwoofer which has proven itself to be in a separate league of capability beyond phantom's very laudable bass production, would lead me to believe that sonicator, the KEFs + sub would be the best decision from a sound quality standpoint.
Not trying to step on toes, just genuinely need help making the decision.
Thanks everyone!

[streamy]

Thank you very much for all feedback. Specifically, how would you say that the sound of the phantoms would be incomparable in presentation to LS50W with a highly capable subwoofer?
From my listening, the phantoms sound good, but are a bit lacking in midrange and treble refinement. I have also had a pair of phantom gold in my old space, and they are capable of producing prodigious slam with respectable deep bass authority, however, they were simply no match to the capability of a 13.5"driver with 1000wRMS. My thinking is that the greater high/mid refinement of the LS50W compared to the phantoms, in addition to the subwoofer which has proven itself to be in a separate league of capability beyond phantom's very laudable bass production, would lead me to believe that sonicator, the KEFs + sub would be the best decision from a sound quality standpoint.
Not trying to step on toes, just genuinely need help making the decision.
Thanks everyone!

Some might have problems with the software side of Phantoms, Dialog, and Spark. But when there is no network or power supply i.e. PLC issues the Phantoms perform great and reliable for years. Great HW! Not so with the LS50W that seem to be a cheap design with many returns and complaints. Check e.g. in the Roon forum, many unhappy customers that after a lot of trouble got their money back or are waiting for replacements for weeks without Kef acknowledging that there is a clear reliability issue. I have no experience with Kef but only want to indicate that the Phantoms have a great design and built quality that apparently the Kefs do not have.

[rdavidhalljr]

Thank you very much for all feedback. Specifically, how would you say that the sound of the phantoms would be incomparable in presentation to LS50W with a highly capable subwoofer?
From my listening, the phantoms sound good, but are a bit lacking in midrange and treble refinement. I have also had a pair of phantom gold in my old space, and they are capable of producing prodigious slam with respectable deep bass authority, however, they were simply no match to the capability of a 13.5"driver with 1000wRMS. My thinking is that the greater high/mid refinement of the LS50W compared to the phantoms, in addition to the subwoofer which has proven itself to be in a separate league of capability beyond phantom's very laudable bass production, would lead me to believe that sonicator, the KEFs + sub would be the best decision from a sound quality standpoint.
Not trying to step on toes, just genuinely need help making the decision.
Thanks everyone!

Some might have problems with the software side of Phantoms, Dialog, and Spark. But when there is no network or power supply i.e. PLC issues the Phantoms perform great and reliable for years. Great HW! Not so with the LS50W that seem to be a cheap design with many returns and complaints. Check e.g. in the Roon forum, many unhappy customers that after a lot of trouble got their money back or are waiting for replacements for weeks without Kef acknowledging that there is a clear reliability issue. I have no experience with Kef but only want to indicate that the Phantoms have a great design and built quality that apparently the Kefs do not have.

 My credit card company provides for an additional warranty on top of the manufacturers warranty, so that concern might be mitigated, further, if thought advisable, I could get an additional warranty/replacement policy through squaretrade for a couple hundred bucks. Thoughts on that?

[antilles]

I’ve never found external subs to integrate very well, so I don’t pay much attention to them and I did discount the benefit of using one with the LS50 somewhat. Apologies. If you don’t have any problem with the presentation and have experience with placement and getting the best out of them, then yes it should be fairly close. Can I ask why you prefer the SB13 Ultra to, say, dual R400B’s or a Reference 8b? I would imagine they would integrate better.

But as I said, it wasn’t so much poor sound that turned me off as poor manufacturing. It’s really not well made, and KEF’s terms all but admit it. There are widespread reports of serious hardware problems as well as poor, buggy software. I tend to think my time as too valuable to be dealing with tech failures if it can be helped. I just spent the better part of three months trying to get a motherboard replaced under warranty, would have been even more aggravating with something much more expensive. But if you’ve had better experiences... Since you already know the Golds and are obviously keen to, why not try something new? At worst, it will cost you some time and/or money. And you would be in a position to appraise probably the two foremost systems of their type.

[rdavidhalljr]

I’ve never found external subs to integrate very well, so I don’t pay much attention to them and I did discount the benefit of using one with the LS50 somewhat. Apologies. If you don’t have any problem with the presentation and have experience with placement and getting the best out of them, then yes it should be fairly close. Can I ask why you prefer the SB13 Ultra to, say, dual R400B’s or a Reference 8b? I would imagine they would integrate better.

But as I said, it wasn’t so much poor sound that turned me off as poor manufacturing. It’s really not well made, and KEF’s terms all but admit it. There are widespread reports of serious hardware problems as well as poor, buggy software. I tend to think my time as too valuable to be dealing with tech failures if it can be helped. I just spent the better part of three months trying to get a motherboard replaced under warranty, would have been even more aggravating with something much more expensive. But if you’ve had better experiences... Since you already know the Golds and are obviously keen to, why not try something new? At worst, it will cost you some time and/or money. And you would be in a position to appraise probably the two foremost systems of their type.

I've ordered the KEFs and they will be here tomorrow so I will be able to assess their sound quality and ability to blend with the SB13. The reason why I am using the SB13 is because I actually had two of them before in my big rig and ended up selling one and deciding to keep the other as I was mulling over getting the KEFs. So the short answer is I'm going with the SB13 because I already have it and don't want to go through the process of selling it to buy another sub. I've been exceptionally pleased with the performance of the SB13, it meshed well with my Venere 3.0 and I'm hoping that it will also mesh well with the LS50W.

I will definitely report back tomorrow or the day after with my listening notes. Thanks again for all of your help!