Raidho C1.2 Issue with D250

[martynbaker1]

Hi thanks for sharing. It couldn’t have come at a better time, as Devialet just came back saying there was nothing wrong with the amp which has left me completely stumped. I’ll raise this with them and see what they say.

I don’t know when you last spoke with Devialet, but the difference in service between now and about 3 years ago... nobody seems to understand what I’m asking these days. It’s so frustrating.

I’ll also ask Raidho what they see.

Also - are you suggesting that if you turned SAM off, this would stop the issue with your Magicos?




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Yes. I have no issue with SAM off. I got a feeling it could be SAM trying to prevent sudden surge of current due to dip of impedance for protection. It is more prominent on loud volume (vol -15dB or louder)

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Thanks again. This could be very helpful. I’ve pinged Raidho (who currently have my tweeters for repair) to see if they think this is a possibility. I’ll then contact Devialet. As a starters for ten, I’ll be turning SAM off.




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[cyberkank]

Hi thanks for sharing. It couldn’t have come at a better time, as Devialet just came back saying there was nothing wrong with the amp which has left me completely stumped. I’ll raise this with them and see what they say.

I don’t know when you last spoke with Devialet, but the difference in service between now and about 3 years ago... nobody seems to understand what I’m asking these days. It’s so frustrating.

I’ll also ask Raidho what they see.

Also - are you suggesting that if you turned SAM off, this would stop the issue with your Magicos?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. I have no issue with SAM off. I got a feeling it could be SAM trying to prevent sudden surge of current due to dip of impedance for protection. It is more prominent on loud volume (vol -15dB or louder)

Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk

Thanks again. This could be very helpful. I’ve pinged Raidho (who currently have my tweeters for repair) to see if they think this is a possibility. I’ll then contact Devialet. As a starters for ten, I’ll be turning SAM off.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeh, try it without SAM first and see how it goes.

[martynbaker1]

Yes. I have no issue with SAM off. I got a feeling it could be SAM trying to prevent sudden surge of current due to dip of impedance for protection. It is more prominent on loud volume (vol -15dB or louder)

Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk

Thanks again. This could be very helpful. I’ve pinged Raidho (who currently have my tweeters for repair) to see if they think this is a possibility. I’ll then contact Devialet. As a starters for ten, I’ll be turning SAM off.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeh, try it without SAM first and see how it goes.

So looks like this one is a no go. Feedback from Raidho below:

All Raidho speakers are quite high impedance speakers, meaning they always stay within the DIN standard, which states a minimum impedance of 3.2 ohm.

They said the Raidho’s wouldn’t have a problem with this.

Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless.


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[Damon]

Yes. If I turn off Sam, the problem doesn't appear. The problem is more prominent if the volume is fairly high. (Volume -15db onwards)

I am not a good technical reference, but as I understand it, SAM affects frequencies from about 150 Hz down, and it works to expand, or extend the behaviour of the low frequency drivers to make them perform to their theoretical design capacity. This results in lower frequency reproduction and less roll off at the low frequencies. One could describe this as, 'more bass'. Logically, the speaker cannot produce the same 'amoun't of 'more bass' at louder volumes. The SAM effect tapers off at higher amp power outputs, and so what you describe is, I believe, the correct behaviour for the SAM circuitry.

I don't know what sort of sonic effect that is on your system- there are many variables and we all have different collections of factors that affect the system. 'Loud' is not the same for all systems or all ears or rooms, as we all know.

Slightly aside, I did have a pair of GamuT Phi 5 mk II speakers a few years ago. They were just not a good match for the Devialet. I don't know why, but the sound simply was not 'together'. I do recall reading that those speakers had a notably non-liner impedance curve, which may have affected the sound.

[Dan]

Curious if you had a chance to try it with SAM off and did you still have the same issue?

[martynbaker1]

Yes. If I turn off Sam, the problem doesn't appear. The problem is more prominent if the volume is fairly high. (Volume -15db onwards)

I am not a good technical reference, but as I understand it, SAM affects frequencies from about 150 Hz down, and it works to expand, or extend the behaviour of the low frequency drivers to make them perform to their theoretical design capacity. This results in lower frequency reproduction and less roll off at the low frequencies. One could describe this as, 'more bass'. Logically, the speaker cannot produce the same 'amoun't of 'more bass' at louder volumes. The SAM effect tapers off at higher amp power outputs, and so what you describe is, I believe, the correct behaviour for the SAM circuitry.

I don't know what sort of sonic effect that is on your system- there are many variables and we all have different collections of factors that affect the system. 'Loud' is not the same for all systems or all ears or rooms, as we all know.

Slightly aside, I did have a pair of GamuT Phi 5 mk II speakers a few years ago. They were just not a good match for the Devialet. I don't know why, but the sound simply was not 'together'. I do recall reading that those speakers had a notably non-liner impedance curve, which may have affected the sound.

Yep you’re right re the frequencies SAM effects. I think it was the protection that SAM adds to the speakers that was being referred to. Either way, the reason the Magico’s blew doesn’t seem to be the same potential reason that the Raidho’s have blown.


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[martynbaker1]

Curious if you had a chance to try it with SAM off and did you still have the same issue?

Still waiting for my tweeters to be returned from Raidho. Sadly the only way I can ‘spot’ the problem is once the tweeter blows


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[martynbaker1]

Just to give an update for those interested...

Raidho believe the blown tweeter was caused by some high frequency ringing/distortion. A raised impedance of the damaged tweeter is what suggests this.

My Townshend Isolda speaker cables have been serviced and they’re fine (because of the construction, a damaged/shorted cable can cause ringing).

The amp has gone off to Devialet and that came back with no problems reported.

The only other issue could be the source. I use Roon over Ethernet direct to Dev and a macmini connected via optical.

I’ve read reports online of macs causing high pitched ringing, though I don’t believe this could be transferred over optical. I sometimes play compressed video with compressed audio, but surely that cuts off the high frequencies.

So still stumped at present...

The reason for most blown tweeters is an under powered amp clipping, though I wouldn’t expect a d250 to clip at the volumes I play...


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[daniel.avasilichioaei]

Just to give an update for those interested...

Raidho believe the blown tweeter was caused by some high frequency ringing/distortion. A raised impedance of the damaged tweeter is what suggests this.

My Townshend Isolda speaker cables have been serviced and they’re fine (because of the construction, a damaged/shorted cable can cause ringing).

The amp has gone off to Devialet and that came back with no problems reported.

The only other issue could be the source. I use Roon over Ethernet direct to Dev and a macmini connected via optical.

I’ve read reports online of macs causing high pitched ringing, though I don’t believe this could be transferred over optical. I sometimes play compressed video with compressed audio, but surely that cuts off the high frequencies.  

So still stumped at present...

The reason for most blown tweeters is an under powered amp clipping, though I wouldn’t expect a d250 to clip at the volumes I play...


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At this moment, I strongly recommend SAM to be turned OFF (from online configurator, not only set to 0% from the remote). I performed multiple tests during the last period (most of them using tone generator and pure waves containing 1 frequency only), and there are at least 3 reasons for this:
- Current firmware version (Firmware 13.1.3 + DOS 2.2.4) is a total failure on SAM area: turning bass or treble above 0 dB is generating heavy distortions. This is not happening on older firmware versions. Also, it is not happening if SAM is turned OFF.
- Between ~10 Hz and ~30 Hz, SAM ON is performing a very strong bass sound amplification. This is MUTCH more than a simple sound adjustment to match with speakers (or SAM purpose: "SAM lets your system achieve perfect temporal alignment between the recorded signal and the acoustic pressure generated by your loudspeakers"). This is for all firmware versions.
- Inside the range 12 ÷ 20 Hz, things are getting really out of control: Expert PRO is generating clicks and distortions on medium speaker - maybe treble speaker also. The source sound is not containing such frequencies, but Expert PRO is "generating" such sounds, and they are pretty loud. This is for all firmware versions.
SAM is supposed to work on very low frequencies only, but it seems that due some software bugs it may generate artificial sounds inside medium and high frequency ranges (and they are pretty loud).
The third reason (I am referring to "clicks and distortions on medium speaker - maybe treble speaker also") may be relating to your problem...

[martynbaker1]

Just to give an update for those interested...

Raidho believe the blown tweeter was caused by some high frequency ringing/distortion. A raised impedance of the damaged tweeter is what suggests this.

My Townshend Isolda speaker cables have been serviced and they’re fine (because of the construction, a damaged/shorted cable can cause ringing).

The amp has gone off to Devialet and that came back with no problems reported.

The only other issue could be the source. I use Roon over Ethernet direct to Dev and a macmini connected via optical.

I’ve read reports online of macs causing high pitched ringing, though I don’t believe this could be transferred over optical. I sometimes play compressed video with compressed audio, but surely that cuts off the high frequencies.  

So still stumped at present...

The reason for most blown tweeters is an under powered amp clipping, though I wouldn’t expect a d250 to clip at the volumes I play...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At this moment, I strongly recommend SAM to be turned OFF (from online configurator, not only set to 0% from the remote). I performed multiple tests during the last period (most of them using tone generator and pure waves containing 1 frequency only), and there are at least 3 reasons for this:
- Current firmware version (Firmware 13.1.3 + DOS 2.2.4) is a total failure on SAM area: turning bass or treble above 0 dB is generating heavy distortions. This is not happening on older firmware versions. Also, it is not happening if SAM is turned OFF.
- Between ~10 Hz and ~30 Hz, SAM ON is performing a very strong bass sound amplification. This is MUTCH more than a simple sound adjustment to match with speakers (or SAM purpose: "SAM lets your system achieve perfect temporal alignment between the recorded signal and the acoustic pressure generated by your loudspeakers"). This is for all firmware versions.
- Inside the range 12 ÷ 20 Hz, things are getting really out of control: Expert PRO is generating clicks and distortions on medium speaker - maybe treble speaker also. The source sound is not containing such frequencies, but Expert PRO is "generating" such sounds, and they are pretty loud. This is for all firmware versions.
SAM is supposed to work on very low frequencies only, but it seems that due some software bugs it may generate artificial sounds inside medium and high frequency ranges (and they are pretty loud).
The third reason (I am referring to "clicks and distortions on medium speaker - maybe treble speaker also") may be relating to your problem...

Thanks for this. I knew phase was effected by SAM across the whole frequency range, but it didn’t even cross my mind that this could happen.

Have you had Devialet confirm the problem? Are other people getting the same issue? Just moments ago they asked me to confirm my setup so their engineers could look further into the problem.

Once my tweeters are back SAM will be turned off.

Thanks again.


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