Speaker Cables

[Eddye]

Very interesting debate.

Just to put things into context a friend of mine is a sound engineer in a trendy central london recording studio. He's worked with lots of big names and has produced lots of critically acclaimed stuff. Sorry can't remember the details off the top of my head.

We often have fun on the subject of audiophile equipment. Just to summarise his position - he thinks we are all mad. He reckons that room acoustics are more important than speakers and tells me that he (and others!) produce using the cheapest wires and equipment (and many sound engineers have terrible hearing! ). He also claims that there isn't really a difference between a £500 and £2000 speaker, as long as they are well made. He puts this down to placebo effect and expectation bias. But it's the room and the way it interacts with a speaker which is the most important thing.

After much impassioned debate (and far too many pints!) we inevitably end up parting ways and yet manage to remain good friends.

I hope we can all be the same on here

Guillaume

Your mate has a point, room acoustics are very important and most of us do little to improve this, and most cable and other tweaks are likely down to the placebo effect. Still the placebo effect is proven to be very effective in battling illness. So I wonder if the placebo effect is really a bad thing?

[Borgen]

I've been told that DACs and pre-amps are generally more sensitive to power-issues than power amps. Which leads me to wonder if a power conditioner or power cord could help isolate noise from the power-amp from reaching e.g. the DAC. For Devialet with SMPS which typically are noisy, I would expect Devialet engineers to have done a good job isolating the internals from noise, but perhaps not paid too much attention from stopping it from leaking out?

I've not tried Devialet with power conditioner (I sold mine before buying the DP), but before that I ended up buying a power conditioner as I found myself enjoying music much more late evening/ night when all the washing machines had stopped and the noise level on the grid had improved.

A small story on speaker cables, for your experiment if you like. I once had a mid-priced speaker cable that was a bit too long and lying around on the floor. Hence, I coiled it up behind the speaker to tidy the room (just a few turns). A few hours later a friend came by and immediately raised his eyebrows and asked what I had done to the sound, he claimed it sounded much thinner (i.e. a true blind-test).

[f1eng]

Your mate has a point, room acoustics are very important and most of us do little to improve this, and most cable and other tweaks are likely down to the placebo effect. Still the placebo effect is proven to be very effective in battling illness. So I wonder if the placebo effect is really a bad thing?

My experience also tells me that the room acoustics, and particularly the position of the speakers in the room are critical.
In my view if one is not in a position to optimise this, swmbo and all that, there is a limit beyond which further expenditure is a waste.

[Eddye]

Your mate has a point, room acoustics are very important and most of us do little to improve this, and most cable and other tweaks are likely down to the placebo effect. Still the placebo effect is proven to be very effective in battling illness. So I wonder if the placebo effect is really a bad thing?

My experience also tells me that the room acoustics, and particularly the position of the speakers in the room are critical.
In my view if one is not in a position to optimise this, swmbo and all that, there is a limit beyond which further expenditure is a waste.

Agreed. The cheapest tweak is taking a few hours to place your speakers correctly. Lots of how-to's on this to be found on the internet.

[Rufus McDufus]

The Devialet SMPS,is actually incredibly noisy in terms of how much noise gets chucked back onto the mains - according to my Audioprism noise tester that is (which may well not be the be-all and end-all of noise measurement but it's a rough indication). I have never measured any other hi-fi device which is worse. I keep my Devialet on a separate spur as a result.

[f1eng]

For Devialet with SMPS which typically are noisy, I would expect Devialet engineers to have done a good job isolating the internals from noise, but perhaps not paid too much attention from stopping it from leaking out?

A small story on speaker cables, for your experiment if you like. I once had a mid-priced speaker cable that was a bit too long and lying around on the floor. Hence, I coiled it up behind the speaker to tidy the room (just a few turns). A few hours later a friend came by and immediately raised his eyebrows and asked what I had done to the sound, he claimed it sounded much thinner (i.e. a true blind-test).

I would be surprised if the designer did that, and I think one doesn't get a CE certification if kit radiates interference.

A coil of cable adds inductance, so changing the electrical characteristics of the cable. It has been advised against for decades.

[ZincAlloy]

Flip sake Frank, after spending all that money on the Goldmunds, now I can see why you can't afford decent speaker cable!!

Well when I bought the Goldmunds between 15 and 20 years ago, they were less pricy. I auditioned them, Goldmund Apologues, Wilson WAMM and Grand SLAMM, B&W Nautilus, NAIM DBL and some big Focals and the Goldmunds were the best to my ears then. Mind you, I wanted to prefer the Nautilus since I adore the styling.
OTOH I am an engineer and since there is no mechanism by which a cable can effect sound quality the only way IMHO that anybody hears a difference in them (and I believe them when they say they do) is either the placebo effect, or expectation bias.
Perfectly functional cables are available for a modest sum. I have experimented in considerable depth with, and can probably afford, fancy cables but am still unconvinced.
The only ones that sounded better to me were MIT cables with the filter(?) boxes, and they were twice the price of my amp at the time, which is obscene IMO.

---

Not wanting to damage my 130,000 Euro Goldmunds or £30,000 Tune Audio speakers

Now you're just showing off!

Guillaume

Sorry, just hoping to put things in perspective for those who have never heard of Goldmund or Tune Audio...

Frank - I was being a bit naughty and winding you up. Given your investment in your kit, I'm quite sure you can buy what you want! My house is probably worth less than your Goldmunds......! But be very clear that I admire your dedication to our hobby. Jealous? Un peu ...... Enjoy, Frank.

[Borgen]

For Devialet with SMPS which typically are noisy, I would expect Devialet engineers to have done a good job isolating the internals from noise, but perhaps not paid too much attention from stopping it from leaking out?

A small story on speaker cables, for your experiment if you like. I once had a mid-priced speaker cable that was a bit too long and lying around on the floor. Hence, I coiled it up behind the speaker to tidy the room (just a few turns). A few hours later a friend came by and immediately raised his eyebrows and asked what I had done to the sound, he claimed it sounded much thinner (i.e. a true blind-test).

I would be surprised if the designer did that, and I think one doesn't get a CE certification if kit radiates interference.

A coil of cable adds inductance, so changing the electrical characteristics of the cable. It has been advised against for decades.

Most refrigerators and washing machines generate lots of noise back on the grid and they still get their CE approval. Medical equipment has special filtering to remove noise and to protect equipment.

As for the "coil" issue, I was just trying to make the point that as long as your cable is curled behind your racks or situated next to other cables or equipment that may radiate then this might be coloring the sound (I was not recommending this as a good practise).

[GuillaumeB]

I've just set up a new poll to see how many people on here can actually hear differences with cables and their Devialet. Please vote! Thanks!

Guillaume

[Confused]

A few digs at (not so) poor mr F1eng here re the cost of some of his old kit.......

However, I think this gives rise to an interesting point. Here is someone with legacy kit with a price tag beyond that most of us could afford. But now he is using Devialet amplification as a preference. OK, the D800 is not a "budget" option, but most of us here already own 5K to 20k worth of Devialet amplification. The conclusion being that the "ultra high end" / state of the art performance is perhaps, very slowly, moving towards something a little more affordable.

Of this, we should all be glad....