Was the D-Premier upgrade a waste of money?

[IanG-UK]

... of course, you could pose the equivalent question "was the D-Premier so good that it was pointless to upgrade?"

[f1eng]

I feel that Devialet has yet to deliver on the promise that made me do the upgrade. The message was that I needed to do the upgrade to get the DSP to be able to use the coming upgrades. I am still waiting for those upgrades to prove it was worth the upgrade.

As for sound I was quite happy with the old D-Premier, I feel there was a slight improvement, but not anywhere near defending the cost of the upgrade. As for connectors, I've used the USB and Ethernet and I am happy with that upgrade, but I didn't need that as I had a very stable AIR and good USB/spdif connector.

The principle reason for the extra DSP was SAM. If you don't need SAM the DSP update will probably never be necessary unless a room correction algorithm is added some day, and you want to use it.
My D-Premiers were updated one at a time, so I was able to compare the newly updated 240, as I think it was then, with the remaining D-Premier before I sent it for update. If there was any sound quality difference at all it was negligible into my speakers. Maybe harder to drive speakers would have benefited from the higher capacity power supply.
I still think of it as an update not an upgrade

Maybe it was me wanting to believe, but I was led to believe that there would be more to come than just SAM. I understand that they have other things to prioritize from a business perspective (new line of products). As for me, I am still waiting for more from the expert line...

What precisely are you waiting for?
I know I am old but I just wanted a good sounding piece of kit with fewer boxes. I got that with a pair of D-Premiers. I have absolutely no expectations about SQ improvements with firmware updates and any functional ones I will evaluate as, when and if they appear.
To be honest I am gobsmacked that so many people seem to see firmware updates as so important. It is as if the amp didn't work properly as released - but it did (unlike the Phantoms and software releases since the style icon guy invested gazillions).
I hear no difference in SQ between them, but there is absolutely no reason why there would be, the audio part is unchanged.
I tend to feel the answer to Ian's question is "yes"

[Borgen]

I feel that Devialet has yet to deliver on the promise that made me do the upgrade. The message was that I needed to do the upgrade to get the DSP to be able to use the coming upgrades. I am still waiting for those upgrades to prove it was worth the upgrade.

As for sound I was quite happy with the old D-Premier, I feel there was a slight improvement, but not anywhere near defending the cost of the upgrade. As for connectors, I've used the USB and Ethernet and I am happy with that upgrade, but I didn't need that as I had a very stable AIR and good USB/spdif connector.

The principle reason for the extra DSP was SAM. If you don't need SAM the DSP update will probably never be necessary unless a room correction algorithm is added some day, and you want to use it.
My D-Premiers were updated one at a time, so I was able to compare the newly updated 240, as I think it was then, with the remaining D-Premier before I sent it for update. If there was any sound quality difference at all it was negligible into my speakers. Maybe harder to drive speakers would have benefited from the higher capacity power supply.
I still think of it as an update not an upgrade

Maybe it was me wanting to believe, but I was led to believe that there would be more to come than just SAM. I understand that they have other things to prioritize from a business perspective (new line of products). As for me, I am still waiting for more from the expert line...

What precisely are you waiting for?
I know I am old but I just wanted a good sounding piece of kit with fewer boxes. I got that with a pair of D-Premiers. I have absolutely no expectations about SQ improvements with firmware updates and any functional ones I will evaluate as, when and if they appear.
To be honest I am gobsmacked that so many people seem to see firmware updates as so important. It is as if the amp didn't work properly as released - but it did (unlike the Phantoms and software releases since the style icon guy invested gazillions).
I hear no difference in SQ between them, but there is absolutely no reason why there would be, the audio part is unchanged.
I tend to feel the answer to Ian's question is "yes"

streaming support

[Charlemagne]

... of course, you could pose the equivalent question "was the D-Premier so good that it was pointless to upgrade?"

Before I did the upgrade I had a demo of a D-Premier and a D-250 side to side on a Wilson Audio Sophia system (newest type) at my reseller. The D-250 was the clear winner for me (more musical, better focus, better Soundstage, less grainy in the trebles; Air sounding better via ethernet on the D-250 than via WiFi on the D-Premier). 

I've never regretted the upgrade. With the D-Premier I had a lot of problems with (WiFi-)Air (white noise, hiccups). With the D-250 amp Air via ethernet is playing very well in my setup. No issues here. I don't use SAM. Only 11 votes for my LSs till now. I doubt if I will ever be able to use SAM on my Dynaudio Sapphires. The limited edition of the model (1000 pairs worldwide) is sold out. 

[f1eng]

... of course, you could pose the equivalent question "was the D-Premier so good that it was pointless to upgrade?"

Before I did the upgrade I had a demo of a D-Premier and a D-250 side to side on a Wilson Audio Sophia system (newest type) at my reseller. The D-250 was the clear winner for me (more musical, better focus, better Soundstage, less grainy in the trebles; Air sounding better via ethernet on the D-250 than via WiFi on the D-Premier). 

I've never regretted the upgrade. With the D-Premier I had a lot of problems with (WiFi-)Air (white noise, hiccups). With the D-250 amp Air via ethernet is playing very well in my setup. No issues here. I don't use SAM. Only 11 votes for my LSs till now. I doubt if I will ever be able to use SAM on my Dynaudio Sapphires. The limited edition of the model (1000 pairs worldwide) is sold out. 

I am surprised.
Air worked just as well for me on my pair of D-Premiers as it did initially in the 800, it doesn't any more, though I have never had white noise under any circumstances, so I am eventually thankful for the Ethernet input...
Maybe it is/was expectation bias on my part but I did not notice any difference in sound between D-Premier and 250, but I did not expect to since the audio part is unchanged and my horns probably (definitely?) do not need a more beefy power supply.

[IanG-UK]

I think expectation bias plays a huge part, both ways. Without a doubt, it does for me. As is the case, I suspect, with just about all listeners and with just about all quality electronic audio equipment.

And, in my opinion, it goes hand in hand with why reviewers never submit themselves to robust blind tests (recognising as I do the imperfections of that process).

These things gladly keep much of the industry in place, and therefore lots of choice of big boys toys for us all.

[GuillaumeB]

I think expectation bias plays a huge part, both ways. Without a doubt, it does for me. As is the case, I suspect, with just about all listeners and with just about all quality electronic audio equipment.

And, in my opinion, it goes hand in hand with why reviewers never submit themselves to robust blind tests (recognising as I do the imperfections of that process).

These things gladly keep much of the industry in place, and therefore lots of choice of big boys toys for us all.

I find the corollary of what you are saying rather depressing. It suggests we can't trust our own senses let alone the judgement of others. 

Guillaume

[Music or sound]

@Music or sound: your comment re.: ...time phase adjustments (available for Totaldac, Holms etc.) is interesting, but as far as I know Totaldac has no correction capability built in, apart for the bass eq option which I believe is amplitude only. Have you got more info on this?

Here are the adjustment options for Totaldac crossover functions including delay range: http://www.totaldac.com/use_note.htm

[IanG-UK]

I think expectation bias plays a huge part, both ways. Without a doubt, it does for me. As is the case, I suspect, with just about all listeners and with just about all quality electronic audio equipment.

And, in my opinion, it goes hand in hand with why reviewers never submit themselves to robust blind tests (recognising as I do the imperfections of that process).

These things gladly keep much of the industry in place, and therefore lots of choice of big boys toys for us all.

I find the corollary of what you are saying rather depressing. It suggests we can't trust our own senses let alone the judgement of others. 

Guillaume

Hi Guillaume

Well I'm sure my intention was not to imply the corollary is robust. 

It could have been better written, less extreme, maybe by saying that, I suggest that, for a material proportion of listeners, expectation bias may play a significant role.

And of course purchasers should trust their own senses (that is inevitable!) and make choices how to trust the view of others.

[thumb5]

I think expectation bias plays a huge part, both ways. Without a doubt, it does for me. As is the case, I suspect, with just about all listeners and with just about all quality electronic audio equipment.

And, in my opinion, it goes hand in hand with why reviewers never submit themselves to robust blind tests (recognising as I do the imperfections of that process).

These things gladly keep much of the industry in place, and therefore lots of choice of big boys toys for us all.

I find the corollary of what you are saying rather depressing. It suggests we can't trust our own senses let alone the judgement of others. 

Guillaume

Black/blue vs white/gold was a salutory reminder of that, if one were needed!