23-Nov-2016, 12:13
So I'm on the fence and start a new thread on digital alteration of a music signal. Is it nonsense or not? If it's not who benefits and who undergoes different experiences?
At first...I love the sound of my D200 but I don't use all the features Devialet offers me. You can call me a purist on sound and...yes I am.
I will c/p some parts of my other postings where I went a 'little' bit too far forward based on the original post
.
Ok, here it comes:
Most speakers have wildly turning phaseshifts in their low frequencies. Phaseshift, in short, means that these low frequencies (who once were time aligned to a tone that carries many frequencies) now seperate from this original tone in time. These low frequencies run beforehand or behind the original tone they belonged to (on the timeline).
This seperation causes fatigue/disruption because your brain, while listening, trys to assemble these frequencies to the original tone all the time. That's why when there is no (or less) phaseshifts in the music you can say at once "Hey, this sounds very natural". It's an ease for the brain. It notices right away the less (or not appearing) phaseshifts and doesn't have to work (thus calms done).
Got it? Difficult for me as english is not my native language.
For your brain fixing things on the timeline is much more difficult than e.g. fixing different volumes in the frequency response of speakers.
Therefor Jitter (digital Phaseshifts) bothers us so much. That's the 'digital sound' we all complain about. The brain has to work in large amounts on these digital phaseshifts.
Now with SAM it's a mixture of both analogue and digital phaseshift. Very complex.
Devialet with SAM measures these (analogue) phaseshifts for each speaker model and 'bends' them digitally inside the music signal (process them on the timeline/volume) to the position THEY think it would be optimal.
However, it's their 2D(imensional) approach on a 3D job. You loose Bit-Perfection of the recording with the first touch on a bit with this.
For many here SAM works and they are happy. For me and some other D owners I know it only works at the expense of loosing ALL the fine details (especially room mapping of recording and transients).
Maybe because of loosing these details you also loose the Jitter of these details thus your brain has to work less and you're experiencing the result as sounding more analogue? I don't know.
It would be better though to work on the problem another way and maintain the details of music.
Test:
To experience for yourself what I'm hearing listen to a recording with no bass but high frequencies (single instrument, woman's voice) and many of room information (best is live recordings). Listen - switch off SAM on RC - listen again. Then you know if SAM alters something in your music...may sound better or worse...your comments.
again c/p
As far as SAM 'only' deals with low freqeuencies.
Have you ever listened to a system with a perfectly speaker matched subwoofer with only high frequency music like lets say a Xylophon or a solo woman's voice.
You would say there is no bass in the recording BUT you will hear a dramatic collapse of stage/room mapping when you turn off the subwoofer.
How to explain this? I'll try but I'm not safe on this one.
Even tones of high frequencies resonate in a room and are alocated to (generate?) low frequencies of very low volume level.
These low frequencies belong to the original high-frequency-tone and imprinted is the precise 3D-Location of them in 'time-volume-freq' because these values are unique for the room they were recorded in.
When listening with a perfectly speaker matching sub the increase in holographic room mapping is huge when the sub is switched on.
So, if you think the reverse way, it would be most likely, if you swirl around with the bits and bytes of low freq (as SAM does) you loose all the informations of room mapping because these altered low freq get displaced out of phase/volume and hence can not be allocated to the original tone by the brain. These 'Out of Phase informations' will just add upp to a fidgety background for which reason some call it 'the blackness of background increases' when such freq are back in phase. Almost for me this is quiet coherent.
..ummpf...weird stuff though when I reread it
This does not mean that SAM or Digital Room Correction is ever to be avoided but possibly CAN be avoided when refining listening room, speaker/listening position etc. is an option for you. Though the whole procedure depends on wether or not you hear a difference with the SAM On/Off test because elsewhere it gets obsolete.
I would appreciate repliers to do this quick test mentioned above with SAM On/Off so we speak of similar experiences.
Big point. If I'm wrong with my theory, can someone try to explain the precise function of digital altering of a music signal to me?
gui
At first...I love the sound of my D200 but I don't use all the features Devialet offers me. You can call me a purist on sound and...yes I am.
I will c/p some parts of my other postings where I went a 'little' bit too far forward based on the original post
.Ok, here it comes:
Most speakers have wildly turning phaseshifts in their low frequencies. Phaseshift, in short, means that these low frequencies (who once were time aligned to a tone that carries many frequencies) now seperate from this original tone in time. These low frequencies run beforehand or behind the original tone they belonged to (on the timeline).
This seperation causes fatigue/disruption because your brain, while listening, trys to assemble these frequencies to the original tone all the time. That's why when there is no (or less) phaseshifts in the music you can say at once "Hey, this sounds very natural". It's an ease for the brain. It notices right away the less (or not appearing) phaseshifts and doesn't have to work (thus calms done).
Got it? Difficult for me as english is not my native language.
For your brain fixing things on the timeline is much more difficult than e.g. fixing different volumes in the frequency response of speakers.
Therefor Jitter (digital Phaseshifts) bothers us so much. That's the 'digital sound' we all complain about. The brain has to work in large amounts on these digital phaseshifts.
Now with SAM it's a mixture of both analogue and digital phaseshift. Very complex.
Devialet with SAM measures these (analogue) phaseshifts for each speaker model and 'bends' them digitally inside the music signal (process them on the timeline/volume) to the position THEY think it would be optimal.
However, it's their 2D(imensional) approach on a 3D job. You loose Bit-Perfection of the recording with the first touch on a bit with this.
For many here SAM works and they are happy. For me and some other D owners I know it only works at the expense of loosing ALL the fine details (especially room mapping of recording and transients).
Maybe because of loosing these details you also loose the Jitter of these details thus your brain has to work less and you're experiencing the result as sounding more analogue? I don't know.
It would be better though to work on the problem another way and maintain the details of music.
Test:
To experience for yourself what I'm hearing listen to a recording with no bass but high frequencies (single instrument, woman's voice) and many of room information (best is live recordings). Listen - switch off SAM on RC - listen again. Then you know if SAM alters something in your music...may sound better or worse...your comments.
again c/p
As far as SAM 'only' deals with low freqeuencies.
Have you ever listened to a system with a perfectly speaker matched subwoofer with only high frequency music like lets say a Xylophon or a solo woman's voice.
You would say there is no bass in the recording BUT you will hear a dramatic collapse of stage/room mapping when you turn off the subwoofer.
How to explain this? I'll try but I'm not safe on this one.
Even tones of high frequencies resonate in a room and are alocated to (generate?) low frequencies of very low volume level.
These low frequencies belong to the original high-frequency-tone and imprinted is the precise 3D-Location of them in 'time-volume-freq' because these values are unique for the room they were recorded in.
When listening with a perfectly speaker matching sub the increase in holographic room mapping is huge when the sub is switched on.
So, if you think the reverse way, it would be most likely, if you swirl around with the bits and bytes of low freq (as SAM does) you loose all the informations of room mapping because these altered low freq get displaced out of phase/volume and hence can not be allocated to the original tone by the brain. These 'Out of Phase informations' will just add upp to a fidgety background for which reason some call it 'the blackness of background increases' when such freq are back in phase. Almost for me this is quiet coherent.
..ummpf...weird stuff though when I reread it
This does not mean that SAM or Digital Room Correction is ever to be avoided but possibly CAN be avoided when refining listening room, speaker/listening position etc. is an option for you. Though the whole procedure depends on wether or not you hear a difference with the SAM On/Off test because elsewhere it gets obsolete.
I would appreciate repliers to do this quick test mentioned above with SAM On/Off so we speak of similar experiences.
Big point. If I'm wrong with my theory, can someone try to explain the precise function of digital altering of a music signal to me?
gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
