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Raidho C1.1 with SAM
#1
Is there anyone who uses Radiho C1.1?
If so, could you put few words upon the observed differences when the SAM is turned off and on, please?

I assume the combination of Raidho and Devialet must be magical.
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#2
(21-May-2015, 04:10)mirekti Wrote: Is there anyone who uses Radiho C1.1?
If so, could you put few words upon the observed differences when the SAM is turned off and on, please?

I assume the combination of Raidho and Devialet must be magical.

Magical it is! I have X1 but there others here that got C1.1 so I hope the will respond.

/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#3
I have C-1.1s with a D200. I think they're a great match. They do need a fair amount of power and the D200 is probably at the lower limit in terms of reserves, but also my listening room is small which helps.
SAM - to be honest my opinion has been a little bit mixed, but improved lately. When they were first SAM'ed I found the bass a little overwhelming. My speakers are also not well-positioned - to close to the wall and towards the centre, as opposed to some feet away away and biased towards the sides as per Raidho's recommendation. This is not helping the bass (or imaging either) but I can live with it.
With firmware updates, starting with 7.1.3, I've found they sound more refined and the SAM'ed bass better integrating with the rest of the frequency range, and also a lot cleaner and better resolving. 8.0 seems better still in that respect and once or twice I've actually found myself actually missing that bottom-heavy sound of previous firmwares! Play a bass-heavy track though and wow, these things can go seriously low for a small speaker. Playing one or two 'torture tracks' I've worried they were going to survive!
With SAM off they're still excellent but a little thinner-sounding. The difference is less marked now but there's definitely greater coherence with SAM on.

If you don't have the C-1.1s already and know their foibles, they are a bit quirky and it can be a bit challenging getting them set up properly. Floor surface is important and if you have a suspended thin wooden floor like I do then things get difficult. I think they must have been tested on a solid floor... I have some Entreq Vibb-eaters on the bottom of the stands which seem to compensate quite well, and look ludicrous. Others use granite slabs which apparently work well too. Carpet is OK and dampens them a little.
Devialet 200, Melco N1A, Rega RP6/Exact, Raidho C-1.1, grounding boxes.
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#4
Thank you for the very detailed respond, it is highly appreciated.
I don't own these speakers, yet, but I do have few more questions, though.

1. Is there a document for Raidho which explains speaker placement. I didn't quite understand whether they have to be toed in and distances from back/side walls.
2. I saw on this forum SAM can be activated with certain gradation, let's say 80%. Does this mean the time phase will be corrected by 80% or the bass extension or both?
3. How the speakers behave at low volumes, does SAM take care of it?

I actually noticed D1 first, but these are way out of my spending limit.
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#5
In my experience, reducing the SAM level preserves the phase correction unchanged, while reducing the bass correction. I have been running SAM at ~10%, and you can plainly hear the phase correction difference when turning on/off. I have no way of measuring whether the effect is diminished, but the ear makes it pretty obvious that the impact is not reduced by 90%!
Devialet D800, Magico Q1, Nordost Frey speaker cable, PS Audio P3 Power Plant, Shunyata Venom 3 AC cable, 21" iMac.
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#6
There is s positioning guide with the speakers. I can't find a copy on their website. They do like a fair amount of distance from the rear wall but I can't do that unfortunately, and they still sound pretty good but don't image quite as well as they should (i.e amazingly well). They pump out a lot of air round the back through the rear port, it's quite impressive.

I compared C-1.1 with D-1 when I bought them and I have to admit I couldn't detect much of a difference! I think it would be more obvious if I spent more time with them and people who've compared both might well strongly disagree with me. It seemed a no-brainer to go for the much cheaper ones (which I bought used).
Devialet 200, Melco N1A, Rega RP6/Exact, Raidho C-1.1, grounding boxes.
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#7
(21-May-2015, 18:49)Rufus McDufus Wrote: There is s positioning guide with the speakers. I can't find a copy on their website. They do like a fair amount of distance from the rear wall but I can't do that unfortunately, and they still sound pretty good but don't image quite as well as they should (i.e amazingly well). They pump out a lot of air round the back through the rear port, it's quite impressive.

I compared C-1.1 with D-1 when I bought them and I have to admit I couldn't detect much of a difference! I think it would be more obvious if I spent more time with them and people who've compared both might well strongly disagree with me. It seemed a no-brainer to go for the much cheaper ones (which I bought used).

And to add to this as you mentioning that you still don't own the C1.1, have a look at X1. These are front ported and not as sensible to the back wall. I think that all Raidhos need more toe in than most speakers because there it happens with a fantastic soundstage and coherence.   


/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#8
I must admit I wasn't familiar with Raidho in the past. X1 looks quite affordable (compared to C1.1 and especially D1). But there must be a catch somewhere.
Do you maybe know what was sacrificed in X1 to get it's price half the C1.1?

I would definitely like to listen to them first, but didn't find any dealer in Dallas, TX area. Maybe when I am in Europe I'll try to find something there.

Oh, one other thing. I noticed in this article http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/comp...aidho-%3Cb that C speakers intentionally had BBC dip introduced.
Does SAM set this flat or it is ignored? If it's flat it kills the speaker designer's idea of the sound, right?

Also, Raidho page claims 80Hz-50KHz, but on the Dev's vote page they are set to 49.4Hz and with SAM to 23.6Hz. I ended up being quite confused with these numbers.
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#9
(21-May-2015, 23:19)mirekti Wrote: I must admit I wasn't familiar with Raidho in the past. X1 looks quite affordable (compared to C1.1 and especially D1). But there must be a catch somewhere.
Do you maybe know what was sacrificed in X1 to get it's price half the C1.1?

I would definitely like to listen to them first, but didn't find any dealer in Dallas, TX area. Maybe when I am in Europe I'll try to find something there.

Oh, one other thing. I noticed in this article http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/comp...aidho-%3Cb that C speakers intentionally had BBC dip introduced.
Does SAM set this flat or it is ignored? If it's flat it kills the speaker designer's idea of the sound, right?

Also, Raidho page claims 80Hz-50KHz, but on the Dev's vote page they are set to 49.4Hz and with SAM to 23.6Hz. I ended up being quite confused with these numbers.
Hi,

X1 is a newer construction as told by the constructor himself in Munich. The construction is carried over from their flagship model the D5 and the idea is to have better pressure off loading. 
Stand is more simpler but put them on ceramic ball feet from their in house brand Ansuz or some other generic ceramic solution and things will be much better. 
The ceramic woofer is smaller but magnet system bigger per woofer size compared to C/D versions. The woofer is 4 inch but in my home it do very good down to 30 Hz and even some 25 Hz if not so loud. This is of course with SAM so playing louder will have SAM protecting your woofer and by that reducing the lower frequencies. I suffer this reduction a bit specially on classical and electro music but concerning the size of the speakers I am ok with it.
For me the X1 is more honest in the top bass to mid than the C/D versions and this is why I chose X1. The X1 can play loud without distortion and with amazing soundscape, with SAM better coherence is had and also bigger sound picture.

The measurements made by Dev is in room response but at what point I don't know but it has been discussed at several times on this forum, -6 or -8 dB!??? No doubt, I have an extra octave downwards with SAM. People ask for the sub when they hear the system.

The dip in C series is still there with SAM, to my ears.

Have listen and see how it works!

Guillaume really liked Borresens (Raidho) budget designs and so much he thought it was better than the 'higher' series, check them out: http://www.scansonic.dk/hdproducts/mb-series.4032/

Best of luck and please tell us your impressions/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#10
(22-May-2015, 08:59)Mikeeo Wrote: Guillaume really liked Borresens (Raidho) budget designs and so much he thought it was better than the 'higher' series, check them out: http://www.scansonic.dk/hdproducts/mb-series.4032/

Correct! The Scansonic 2.5 is an extraordinary speaker. I've never heard a small-ish budget speaker sound this good!

I must say I also really liked the X3, but boy the 2.5 was good... And it's only 2.9k euros!!!!

Guillaume 
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Paul Pang Audiophile switch w/ MCRU LPS,  sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
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