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Hiss on Phono
#1
Hi

Using a Dynavector XX2MkII on my LP12 .... I get a fair amount of hiss on the phono input. My speakers are quite a tough load for the D200 (PMC 20.26) so the volume on the phono input is around -10db so quite loud.

Anyone else hear/experience the same thing?

Thanks
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#2
(29-Jun-2015, 21:57)wiresandmore Wrote: Hi

Using a Dynavector XX2MkII on my LP12 .... I get a fair amount of hiss on the phono input. My speakers are quite a tough load for the D200 (PMC 20.26) so the volume on the phono input is around -10db so quite loud.

Anyone else hear/experience the same thing?

Thanks

That is odd IME. I have no hiss at all and my speakers are 109dB/watt so show any tiny shortcoming in the way of hiss or hum, I get none of either even on phono with gain up at 0dB, which would destroy the speakers if I played music at that volume.
I am using an Ortofon A90 and Ortofon T3000 sut into the moving magnet input. The sut is super sensitive to earthing (I have had it decades) but with a simple earth wire to the Devialet earth tag there isn't a whisper of hum.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

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#3
The SUT's are the answer, I get some hiss with mine if turned up loud but with SUT's it is fine and even sounds better to my ears.
UK kit - Garrard 401 slate plinth - Dynavector DV 507 Mk2 - DH1 cartridge - 2012 Mac Mini - 64GB SSD + 1 TB HD - Roonserver - MCRU PSU - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Black Rhodium ARIA DCT AES/EBU - Devialet 1000Pro - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable (1 metre each side) - Magico S5

Spain kit - 2012 Mac Mini - 64GB SSD + 1 TB HD - Roonserver - microRendu - Devialet D120 - Ergo IX speakers
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#4
Seems rather odd that a step up transformer would do a better job than the Devialet. With the needle off the record I have a tiny amount of hiss that I have to go up to the speakers to hear. .35 mV cartridge.
Roon->RoonBridge->Air 3.02RC->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Apheta 2, Rega Aria


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#5
I'm running an MC and yes, there is some hiss which can be clearly heard if the amp is turned up to say 0dB, which is a lot higher than I normally run. I think this is probably to be expected when you consider the huge amount of gain involved. I must admit that I don't like the idea of a step up transformer, something else in the signal path as it were. However, reading the posts above, and considering transformers are not far off 100% efficient, I think this is an option well worth exploring.
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#6
OK, thanks for the observations. Might experiment a bit with settings and see what that brings (play with the new 8.1 phono options)....don't really want to go down the SUT route but it would be an option.....
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#7
(30-Jun-2015, 20:13)Confused Wrote: I'm running an MC and yes, there is some hiss which can be clearly heard if the amp is turned up to say 0dB, which is a lot higher than I normally run.  I think this is probably to be expected when you consider the huge amount of gain involved.  I must admit that I don't like the idea of a step up transformer, something else in the signal path as it were.  However, reading the posts above, and considering transformers are not far off 100% efficient, I think this is an option well worth exploring.

In a conventional phono stage there is normally an active amplifier before the RIAA stage in the mc input which isn't used  with MM. Personally I prefer a transformer to the active stage, though I do not know why... I have used one (or a phono stage with built in transformer) rather than gain stage on and off for the last 30 years or so.
With the Devialet this may be different. I didn't ask Mathieu (who designed the D-Premier phono stage). I presume there will be some sort of active amp to get the level in the right ballpark for the adc, and if so the gain will be much higher when configured for mc.

Actually, stupidly enough, the reason I ended up using the SUT with the Devialet (I had used the mc input of my Goldmund PH2) was to do with cables Smile
The Goldmund T3f arm has proprietary connectors and the cable did not reach to the Devialet. Using the SUT between them gave me more distance so I could put the amp where I wanted it, and it sounded really good to me so I stuck with it.
I have moved stuff around now, so I could try again direct - if I could be bothered to do that rather than enjoying listening to some music.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

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#8
(01-Jul-2015, 20:07)f1eng Wrote:
(30-Jun-2015, 20:13)Confused Wrote: I'm running an MC and yes, there is some hiss which can be clearly heard if the amp is turned up to say 0dB, which is a lot higher than I normally run.  I think this is probably to be expected when you consider the huge amount of gain involved.  I must admit that I don't like the idea of a step up transformer, something else in the signal path as it were.  However, reading the posts above, and considering transformers are not far off 100% efficient, I think this is an option well worth exploring.

In a conventional phono stage there is normally an active amplifier before the RIAA stage in the mc input which isn't used  with MM. Personally I prefer a transformer to the active stage, though I do not know why... I have used one (or a phono stage with built in transformer) rather than gain stage on and off for the last 30 years or so.
With the Devialet this may be different. I didn't ask Mathieu (who designed the D-Premier phono stage). I presume there will be some sort of active amp to get the level in the right ballpark for the adc, and if so the gain will be much higher when configured for mc.

Actually, stupidly enough, the reason I ended up using the SUT with the Devialet (I had used the mc input of my Goldmund PH2) was to do with cables Smile
The Goldmund T3f arm has proprietary connectors and the cable did not reach to the Devialet. Using the SUT between them gave me more distance so I could put the amp where I wanted it, and it sounded really good to me so I stuck with it.
I have moved stuff around now, so I could try again direct - if I could be bothered to do that rather than enjoying listening to some music.

Frank - If you find the phono stage quiet with 109dB/1m efficiency speakers, and myself and some others with mc's find the phono stage a little noisy, the evidence is becoming compelling that a step up transformer could be beneficial.  But does an SUT have any downsides?  I guess so, for example an extra cable & additional connections are required, which must cause at least some losses.  With respect to my own comment that transformers are 100% efficient, I note that SUT's vary enormously in price, and to be honest I can't think if this is something worth splashing considerable amounts of cash on or not.  Maybe lower priced SUT's are all you need, maybe worth paying a little extra.  I run an Ortofon Cadenza black, and Ortofon alone will sell you an SUT at rather different price points.  Worthy of further investigation though, I can feel a home demo coming on ....
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#9
Maybe it's something to contact Devialet about, step up transformers being much quieter than the devialet alone. They might be able to tweak and improve their phono preamp for low power MC cartridges. They do take pride low noise/quietness.
Roon->RoonBridge->Air 3.02RC->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Apheta 2, Rega Aria


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#10
(01-Jul-2015, 22:09)Dr Tone Wrote: Maybe it's something to contact Devialet about, step up transformers being much quieter than the devialet alone.  They might be able to tweak and improve their phono preamp for low power MC cartridges.  They do take pride low noise/quietness.

I am a little intrigued by your earlier post re phone hiss, because it does look like you suffer a little less than I do with this.  Plus, we have cartridges with very similar output levels.  I have an Ortofon Cadenza Black, which outputs .35mV. When you say you have to go right up to the speaker to hear this, what volume setting do you have on the Dev?

I wonder if there is another factor at play here?
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