Devialet at Oxford Audio 13th July

[IanG-UK]

Back from the OAC event yesterday - it was a three hour drive for me which did not encourage me to post last night after I arrived home.

l’ll probably repeat much of what had already been said by Confused and others - apologies - but I had prepared a list of questions which I had pre-circulated to the Devialet guys so I will stick with that as a basis for this post.

The event was obviously hosted by Jon and colleagues at OAC and attended by Joachim Fritsch and Antoine Pivron who run the Devialet UK operation and by Mathieu Pernot who is R&D Engineer in Paris and one of the two main brains (along with Monsieur Calmel) behind the D-Premier, the Experts, the Od’A, the forthcoming Pros and elements of the Phantoms. There were three (I think) Od’A owners as attendees and ten to fifteen others, mosty Devialet owners.

OAC had one room set up with the Expert 1000 Pro fed with OAC’s Aurender or Mathieu’s MacBook, driving Wilson Sasha 2s. The Expert 1000 Pro was on some kind of Stillpoints (I think) end there were Entreq units around (not sure about the connectivity). The other room set up was a pair of Phantom Silvers on Tree stands with the Dialog and fed by either a MacMini or an iPhone; there was also a single Phantom Gold on a Tree stand with the same feeds. Apparently this is the only unit in the UK so there was no possibility of hearing a pair.

I’d hoped that my questions would have been answered by a dedicated written reply but, in the event, the reply was a combination of the Expert 1000 Pro four page handout:

http://www.devialet.com/assets/V3/pdf/Ex...per-EN.pdf

and verbal replies. Half the presentation was made in Expert 1000 Pro demonstration room and half in the general shop area, with a much smaller audience, so not ideal.

Anyway, here are the questions I asked and the answers given, with some other notes:

1 How many discrete boards/elements does the 800 and Od’A and 1000 Pro have and how many have changed (or are going to change, and if not immediately, then when) between the 800 and the Od’A and the Od’A and the 1000 Pro and what, put simply, were the changes?

A: There is a new A board, a new D board, and a new control algorithm which is, I think, the element that makes the A and D elements work optimally together. There is no new DAC chip (and no current intention to change that in future) but a new Magic Wire (with better distortion and noise) and all this will be common to all new and modified units. This is already a feature of the Od’A. The 1000 Pro also has a new power supply and thermal management system which will eventually go into the Od’A - though it was not stated fully how this would drip down to the new and upgradeable units.
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2 In terms of key quantifiable measurements, please describe and quantify the main things which have changed between the 800 and the Od’A and the Od’A and the 1000 Pro

A: This was very interesting. Mathieu explained that, from the current starting point, the priorities were (a) power (b) volume control © quality. What I interpreted from this was that, given Expert’s current quality, their aim was to increase power (Mathieu said that the best power was theoretically infinite power) and then to ensure that existing optimum quality was delivered at all power (volume) levels. In terms of quantifiable measures, he said that the 1000 Pro would now deliver continuous full power for a whole minute whereas the 800 could only deliver continuous full power for two seconds. He also explained that the theoretical optimum mix (but practically unachievable) between A and D was 0% A and 100% D; but that the changes had moved them from 2%/98% to 0.5%/99.5%, improving precision by a factor of four.

Feedback from Mathieu: Improved performance whatever the listening level. Will now publish two figures - THD+N at full power which is unchanged over the previous dual mono models; THD at 10w on all models, giving additional proof of improved performance compared with the non_PRO models. The OdA and 1000 PRO perform the same.
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3 What do you think are the main sonic differences between the 800 and the Od’A and the Od’A and the 1000 Pro?

A: As part of the design process, Devialet do not listen to their amplifiers (Quad used to say just the same) so their philosophy and the reality is that there is no tuning by ear. Mathieu said “my instruments measure just the same on Monday morning and Friday afternoon; my ears don’t listen just the same at various times”.
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4 To what extent will an Od’A remain an Od’A; but when it is converted will it embody everything (technically) which is in a brand new 1000 Pro, save for the amplifier casework, the remote casework and the signature?

A: The Od’A, once upgraded, will be technically identical to the 1000 Pro. The differences will be the rose gold amplifier and remote cases, the new re-signed baseplate and the signed certificate. Devialet will finish development of the new streaming board (uPNP, DNLA, others to be confirmed) estimated by Q2 2017 and start fitting it in Q3 2017. This is when they will update the Od’A power supply and thermal management system so that the process requires the Od’A to go back to Paris once only, because of its very delicate casework finishes. The upgrade will be free.

Upgrades generally will start in September with the 800 to 1000 Pro (which will get all the changes except the streaming board, which comes later, so presumably two returns to Paris) and the cost will be £4,990. There other model changes will be announced at the end of July and will be 120 to 130 Pro (no upgrade possible); 200 to 220 Pro (upgrade will cost £2,990); 250 to 250 Pro (upgrade will cost £2,990); 400 to 440 Pro (£4,490). The 120 can be upgraded to the 220 Pro (£2,990)

Turnaround time is three weeks. The upgrade window may be limited to September to December.

There will be a software/firmware release being released now and in 2017 the new operating system will effectively create a common platform for Expert and Phantom (one will not need to use a Dialog with an Expert), and give some futureproofing to the Phantom and Expert lines.

Feedback from Mathieu: Latest firmware upgrade 10.0.2 out soon will give OdA owners as many watts as 1000 PRO owners (as soon as the new configurator is online) plus new ADH firmware. OdA owners will be the first to get the OS board upgrade in June 2017. In order to avoid the OdA travelling to France twice, we will do the upgrade in June 2017 for OdA owners, who already have the latest improvements, both hardware and 10.0.2 firmware. 
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5 If the baseplate is different between the Od’A and the 1000 Pro, will the 1000 Pro baseplate be equivalently signed to that of the Od’A; if not, why not, and what will be the options?

A: Yes
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6 What are the arrangements for Od’A to 1000 Pro conversions - for UK units when will the update program start and end, how long will an update take, what are the logistical arrangements? Will all the conversion happen at one point in time or is there more to come in 2017 and, if so, what?

A: Covered above
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7 There is (what may be an unofficial) beta AIR3 Mac release which seems to be producing very good results in terms of sound quality and stability. What is the plan and timescales for this to be progressed/to have full functionality/to be officially released?

A: They are addressing the resource capabilities via a hire to fully fix AIR; and also a communications/customer service head; and also someone to come into the organisation under Monsieur Calmel hopefully to give better senior resource to address many of the concerns expressed on DC and no doubt by dealers.

Feedback from Mathieu: Official public release of beta version next September. Presumably September 2016
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8 Presumably AIR3 Windows will follow: is this a largely different piece of work and what is the plan and timescales?

A: Covered above to the extent they divulged

Feedback from Mathieu: Official public release of beta version next September. Presumably September 2016
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9 What is your approach on Roon?

A: They have had discussions with Roon so there is interest in Devialet, but of various enthusiasms. I guess clarity will not emerge until the streaming board is finalised

Feedback from Mathieu: Roon is great and thanks to USB you can already enjoy it on our machines. Raat is unfortunately another codec to implement and if we get sufficient time we will add it to the OS board. We think we can get solid support from Roon.
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10 What is your approach on MQA?

A: Mathieu does not have much enthusiasm for this - in part predicated on MQA’s full effectiveness being reliant on recording companies’ sign up.

Feedback from Mathieu: Same as Roon. Interesting technically speaking but yet another proprietary protocol that surely may not become an industry standard. Investing time on such a protocol (from a competitor) is something we have not decided on yet.


Other items: Mathieu also said that the Pro series was not on his 2016 work plan at the start of January this year. Only because of the enthusiasm for the Od'A did they decide to go ahead with the Pro range. They have, apparently, sold 6,000 D-Premier/Expert units in five years so I guess the volume has grown from something like 400 in year one to 2,000 in year five. There are many different views on the ethical and commercial principles embedded in the "birth of a new audiophile icon" in the Od'A in January - something then supplanted by the 1000 Pro in July but, like it or not, we now know roughly where we are! And the UK guys admitted that they have much to learn on communications and customer service.

[GuillaumeB]

Great post Ian.

Thanks for taking the trouble to report all this back to the forum. 

Guillaume

Edit: just processing what Ian has written it would therefore appear that 800 owners will get the full 1000 Pro upgrade (less the new network board) in September, whereas O d'A owners may have to wait until the second half of 2017 (or whenever the new board is ready). Hmmm. 

Guillaume

[Teliaved]

Thanks a lot for this great post.
The last sentence is key.
"Other items: Mathieu also said that the Pro series was not on his 2016 work plan at the start of January this year. Only because of the enthusiasm for the Od'A did they decide to go ahead with the Pro range."
I believe this explains the way the ODA was introduced as a stand alone limited series, and ended being a beta version , customised, signed and numbered in a specific case, of the PROmodel.
They are very rapid in this design work, certainly at the cost of air.
I won't afford the upgrade to PRO.
I am very very happy with my D200 ensemble.
But if I could, I would look for an OdA rather than a PRO. Just to have a more significant and exclusive symbol of the story of this company plus the remote looks fantastic in this alloy.

On the communication aspect, I think they should have send a hand written letter to OdA owners.
On the AIR aspect, they should either release a working windows version, or drop windows and focus on Apple version as the only supported setup.

Now back to the music.
Francois

[Rufus McDufus]

If only they could have worked/work so rapidly fixing AIR...

I'm unlikely to upgrade my D200 to a D220Pro at those prices. It would have to sound a lot better to warrant it so I'll wait and see what other people think.

[thumb5]

Same here, especially if it's 2 x £2,990 to upgrade 400 to 440 Pro. That's pretty much half the original cost price again.

[GuillaumeB]

Same here, especially if it's 2 x £2,990 to upgrade 400 to 440 Pro.  That's pretty much half the original cost price again.

I doubt the 400 to 440 upgrade will cost more than the 800 to 1000 conversion which is £4990... maybe it will be the same cost?

Guillaume

[Bwaze]

Thanks for the reports!

Was there any clarification about "discount for recent purchasers of Expert line"?

[nicoludio]

He also explained that the theoretical optimum mix (but practically unachievable) between A and D was 0% A and 100% D; but that the changes had moved them from 2%/98% to 0.5%/99.5%, improving precision by a factor of four.

Thanks, Ian, for the detailed report.

What does the theoretical optimum mix of the A ratio of 0:100 mean? Does that mean that the Pro series require less Class A output than before to produce the equivalent power output (when compared to the existing series)?

I am trying to understand the concept of precision having being improved by a factor of 4 as well

[thumb5]

Same here, especially if it's 2 x £2,990 to upgrade 400 to 440 Pro.  That's pretty much half the original cost price again.

I doubt the 400 to 440 upgrade will cost more than the 800 to 1000 conversion which is £4990... maybe it will be the same cost?

Guillaume

That wouldn't be consistent with the "it's the cost of the new parts" argument (used to justify the equal cost of the 120 to 220 pro and 200 to 220 pro upgrades) though, would it?  If that were true why would it not cost exactly twice as much to upgrade 2 x 200s as just one?

Thanks for trying to reassure me though, appreciated   I should just wait and see, rather than trying to apply logic --  as has been said many times already on this topic.

[thumb5]

He also explained that the theoretical optimum mix (but practically unachievable) between A and D was 0% A and 100% D; but that the changes had moved them from 2%/98% to 0.5%/99.5%, improving precision by a factor of four.

Thanks, Ian, for the detailed report.  

What does the theoretical optimum mix of the A ratio of 0:100 mean?  Does that mean that the Pro series require less Class A output than before to produce the equivalent power output (when compared to the existing series)?

I am trying to understand the concept of precision having being improved by a factor of 4 as well

That had me thinking too.  I suppose the percentages refer to current delivery, and the "ideal" is that the class A delivers no current, just ensures that the output voltage is correct.  Which sounds all very nice, but unless the class A can provide /some/ current, how can it affect the voltage.  My interpretation is that the new control software means the class D can be more accurate so the class A has to deliver less current to correct for inaccuracies; thereby the class A can be more accurate itself and act more like an "ideal" voltage reference.

ETA: so (paradoxically?) because the class A is delivering less current, you're actually hearing a purer class A sound.