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New Pro - SQ for classical music
#41
(13-Nov-2016, 20:06)arcam Wrote: Whilst rewiring the speakers, I discovered that my Oehlbach cables had become oxydized. I went to my dealer who gently lent me some AQ Type 4. They instanteously produced a softer, less bassy, but still somewhat fatiguing sound. I then went to the configurator and enabled SAM.

I hadn't played with SAM before because my Nautilus 805 have not been SAM'ed. After googling for a while, I was able to reconstitute the Nautilus' history and discover the 805 Signature had been SAM'ed and they're almost identical to the original Nautilus. I used that for SAM and...

... was amazed how much the sound did improve! It was yet another step up in clarity, precision, sound stage and bass. Still, there may be some listening fatigue, but it's definitely a much welcome and amazing improvement.

I have yet to report which albums seem digitized. This may take a while yet because I have to share space with the other members of the family and they don't quite like me zapping from album to album. A situation that may sound (sic) familiair to many.

PS. My dealer recommends AQ Rocket single-biwiring. Is this what I should be looking for? Anything better to recommend?

@yabaVR, I don't know how to include pictures, here's a textual description for now:
- Synology / Qobuz > Apple Express 5 GHz (AE) > Macbook Air iTunes / Qobuz Desktop > AE > D-Link > Pro > Oehlbach or AQ Type 4 > Nautilus 805

I've looked back over this thread, but can't see which Pro you use. Which model do you have, please?
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS running JRiver, Mutec MC-3+USB, Devialet 440 Pro, Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable, Rupert Neve Designs headphone amp., Proac Response D20R, Van Den Hul The First Ultimate interconnects, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#42
(13-Nov-2016, 20:06)arcam Wrote: @yabaVR, I don't know how to include pictures, here's a textual description for now:
- Synology / Qobuz > Apple Express 5 GHz (AE) > Macbook Air iTunes / Qobuz Desktop > AE > D-Link > Pro > Oehlbach or AQ Type 4 > Nautilus 805

To attach pics just look beneath the field you are editing. It say Attachments, klick on choose file (any folder on your drive you saved the pics on), then klick Add Attachment...done.

Is the MAC-Book or the D or anything of your system standing on a glas surface/marble or something like that? Try some other basis then or some wooden basis between the component and the glas surface.
Even if you tend to be a non-believer of such things having an influence on SQ...try it  Idea . I just had the same situation with a customer this weekend when my laptop stood on a marble surface and classical music was just anoying. Changed to a wooden surface...everything was ok.

I would not invest in new cables until you've found the origin of your fatigue with listening to your D. Cables and all the like have an impact (big impact for me) but if you are not envolved in tuning your system until now and you feel this big fatigue while listening to your D a cable alone will most likely not solve this.

Do you stream via Wifi or Ethernet?

It's a pity you are on Apple because there is AIR 3.0.1 BETA for Windows that sounds quiet a bit better than the original AIR 3.0. So you might also have to wait for the final AIR for Apple.

And pics would be nice anyway.

gui
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar AO/jplay/process lasso/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#43
@antoine, @confused, I've skimmed through about 500 records in my digital collection. I did not hear in details of course because I would still be listening or else would have had to skip lunch, dinner, work, sleep and still probably wouldn't have finished before a few weeks.

Most records sounded OK now that I've enabled SAM (wow!). OK ranges from superb (recent recordings) to enjoyable (for older ones). I speak about the sound, not the emotions; although poor sound tends to ruin the emotions. How SAM can improve sound to this point is a mystery and maybe not in B&W's favor.

When I suspected issues with a recording, I turned to Qobuz to compare. The result was often in favour of Qobuz, but not always. Most striking was when Qobuz had a remastered version.

Here are the records that definitely did not play well:
  • Bach partitas by Milstein: the highs tend to be clipped (CD), the Qobuz version is mildly better
  • Chopin ballade #1 by Samson François: both CD and Qobuz sounded terrible, a lot of digital artifacts
  • Verdi Requiem by Giulini: the voices tend to merge in a distasteful sound, even on Qobuz
  • Ysaye sonatas by Papavrami: the violon causes quite listening fatigue
  • Wagner Parsifal by Karajan: I remember the trombones on LP to be sublime and so did the press think at the time. Definitely missing some chromatism in the CD/Qobuz version
  • Debussy melodies by Dietschy/Cassard: the voice tends to be a bit harsh. I've heard it sound sublime in some system in the past (ah! yes, the past is always better, isn't it?)
This is my perception in my system in my home with my ears and it may be due to the quality (or non-quality) of the original recordings. But I would be interested to hear opinions when played on your own systems.


The high point of the evening though was when I listened to Kathleen Ferrier recording of Mahler's Kindertotenlieder on Qobuz. It's been remastered. And it's brilliant. Although at first you think not because they've NOT hidden the noise, compared to the earlier CD release. So you first think: what? how terrible. But then you hear she sing and it's a completely different experience from the CD. Less bass, more air, more emotion.

If you've missed this release, hurry!
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#44
@confused, I now see what you mean about "digital edge". Many of the 500 records generated that vague sensation of having been "synthesized" (which they have), especially the strings (violon, cello, piano). It's not quite digital, but it's not quite analog either. And it's not quite the real instrument, although it's close and sometimes incredibly close.
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#45
@yabaVR, as you may have inferred from the description, half Wi-Fi, half Ethernet:
  • Wi-Fi from the Macbook Air to the Wi-Fi router
  • Ethernet from the router to the Pro
The Pro is resting beneath a TV (which is off) and on a wooden piece of furniture. The Macbook Air is mostly on a wooden table and at this moment on my knees. No glass or metallic surface whatsoever.

The Ethernet cables are standard CAT 5 cables.

The Nautilus are on both side of a very large and very high glass panel which may cause harmful sound reflections.
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#46
(15-Nov-2016, 00:07)arcam Wrote: @yabaVR, as you may have inferred from the description, half Wi-Fi, half Ethernet:
  • Wi-Fi from the Macbook Air to the Wi-Fi router
  • Ethernet from the router to the Pro
The Pro is resting beneath a TV (which is off) and on a wooden piece of furniture. The Macbook Air is mostly on a wooden table and at this moment on my knees. No glass or metallic surface whatsoever.

The Ethernet cables are standard CAT 5 cables.

The Nautilus are on both side of a very large and very high glass panel which may cause harmful sound reflections.

Ok, I can not imagine what the big glass panels are but as said before glass as it vibrates gives its texture added to the sound. It really sounds hard, screamy, glassy...but if that is your furnishings you have to live with it  Tongue

There is one other point you can try. The 'old' expert line used to sound better/more natural when the electrical phase of your powerline (the side of the plug where a phasetester is enlighted) is connected to the outer right contact of the IEC when looking from behind your D on it. I don't know if it's the same position with the PRO line but anyway if you live in a country where you can rotate the plug in your powersocket it's worth a try. If not you have to wait for some guys here in the forum to confirm the right phase-position on the IEC on the PROs and then let an electrician alter the cable to your D if it does not fit. It's worth the effort (for SQ) I have to say.

gui
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar AO/jplay/process lasso/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#47
(15-Nov-2016, 11:18)yabaVR Wrote: I don't know if it's the same position with the PRO line but anyway if you live in a country where you can rotate the plug in your powersocket it's worth a try.

I don't think I am in a country with rotating plugs unfortunately, nor did I think such a country existed.

As for the glass panel, sorry I did confuse you but it was really late. It's just a window with very large dimensions (W and H).
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#48
(15-Nov-2016, 18:53)arcam Wrote:
(15-Nov-2016, 11:18)yabaVR Wrote: I don't know if it's the same position with the PRO line but anyway if you live in a country where you can rotate the plug in your powersocket it's worth a try.

I don't think I am in a country with rotating plugs unfortunately, nor did I think such a country existed.

Oh, there is. It's called EU  Big Grin .

Here in Germany (EU) we use power plugs like in the picture below. You can rotate them (180°) at your will and the phase of power will move to either pole of the IEC-Outlet of the cable.

I think in your case, if we finally know of the correct phase input on the new PROs, you are lucky and it matches with your cable or you have to get the cables (P & N) inside the plug reversed (by an electrician). In the end you mark the cable as seen in the picture and you mark your Devialet. So for the future you will ever know where the phase on your cables is located (if you measure at the power socket first and match the plug there).

Oh, and you have to find out the correct Phase-Position for every electrical component you have. Sorry for the inconvenience  Big Grin but once it is done it's much more relaxed listening, I promise.

gui


Attached Files Image(s)
   
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar AO/jplay/process lasso/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#49
I am going to try to be diplomatic here.  The original post of this thread made quite a serious point, Arcam had found that with his new Pro, some music sounded excellent, other music did not.  I have my own theory as to why this may be.  Anyway, there have now been a number of posts regarding modifications, cables etc, that claim to improve the performance of the Devialet.  One thing I wish to make clear is that I have absolutely no problem with people posting their experiences of such modifications and 'tweaks', in fact, I find this kind of stuff fascinating.  However, I would offer a note of caution.  Whilst a given 'tweak' may indeed offer an overall improvement in the amplifier's performance, it may not be a cure all for all issues Devialet, and if you read Arcam's earlier posts I believe this to be the case here.  It is also worth noting that this forum has a very fine section called 'Tweaker's Corner', the perfect place for posting about many and varied mods.  What I am trying to say is that I am seeing 'tweak' type posts appearing all over the place on this forum, and I believe in many cases these are diluting the intent of the thread.

Anyway, back on topic.  My experience of the Pro informs me that versus the Expert, the Pro exhibits a much higher level of resolution, detail, clarity and shear realism when compared to the Expert.  In many ways this is remarkable, when you consider that these aspects could be considered a strength of the Expert, so this is an improvement from a very high level.

So, the Pro is an extremely revealing beast.  What then if you have an old CD, something mastered from tape, and with the D/A conversion performed using 1980's or 90's spec equipment.  What if this 1980's D/A conversion was not the best quality, or indeed was not executed properly.  One thing I do know is that a little analogue distortion does not sound that bad, a little digital distortion sounds horrific.   Digital can sound good, but to sound good it needs to be done well.  So, you have a CD where the original mastering to digital is in some aspect problematic.  You may not have noticed this on your old amp/dac, but then you get a new amp/dac that is a magnitude more revealing, and at the same time because it is new, you are inevitably listening very carefully to your system.  You have spent a lot of money, was it worth it, you just can't help but to listen very hard and worry.  What happens next is because you are listening so hard and your new amp/dac is just so incredibly revealing, that you start to quite clearly noticing digital issues inherent with the recording.  This is my theory of what is happening here.  Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong.  But lets assume for a moment I am correct, then any tweaks that improve performance would actually make the issue worse by improving the revealing nature of the Pro.

To this end, I for one would love to listen to a couple of the exact recordings that Arcam has listed earlier in this thread.  Unfortunately, I do not subscribe to Qobuz, and even trying to buy the same from Amazon or Ebay woyld be problematic, as I'd likely end up with a different version.  Although an Amazon AISN number, or the CD's identification number might actually make this possible.  (If Arcam can post details and I can find a copy somewhere, I'd be quite happy to buy then post to another UK forum member to enjoy, or I guess not enjoy if it does sound really bad!)

A final note to the Tweakers, it's all good stuff, keep it coming, keep filling up Tweaker's corner, in fact I might need some of this stuff, as I have Dev's on a glass shelf, with standard power cables, rubbish and speaker binding posts, I need help! Sad
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#50
(16-Nov-2016, 14:09)Confused Wrote: To this end, I for one would love to listen to a couple of the exact recordings that Arcam has listed earlier in this thread.  

Same here, but there are just too many entries in Qobuz to be sure I am playing the same albums. More details of each release would be much appreciated.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Paul Pang Audiophile switch w/ MCRU LPS,  sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
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