250 vs 800 vs The Best

[DBdub]

Hi all

I was referred here from another forum.

I don't see a clear answer to my question tho.  So I am posting it in this new thread.

History

I owned some mid-level Naim separates running high end speakers (Tidal Piano Diacera).  Of course not a good match, with speakers under utilized.

I trialed at the time Devialet 170 then 250.  170 was not a clear step up from Naim but 250 was.

250 exhibited all the strength of 170 (clarity, power, bass control) without the obvious weaknesses of 170 (thin and somewhat bland).

So I went with 250.

Past few weeks

Having had the amp for a while, I know this is not the ultimate.  The sound with this combo is below some of the best I had heard (within reasonable price).  While I listen to music frequently, over time enjoyment faded somewhat.

E.g. one of the best sounding combo I heard ran a McIntosh monobloc 1Kw into similar speakers, with McIntosh pre and Esoteric CDP.  That sound was quite unbelievable.

So 2 weeks ago I asked my Tidal dealer to bring Tidal amps to my house for a demo.  Prisma pre and Impulse Monoblocs (overall close to their top combo).

Gap

The performances I have to say almost a magnitude difference, in terms of enjoyment.

Bass especially was amazing.  Surreal texture.  Punchy.  High was no less impressive than 250, and if anything even clearer.  Tremendous warmth like tube.

Question

The Tidal gears awfully expensive and huge (relatively).  I would hate to fork out that money and even more to find space for those big boxes and cables.  

So if 250 x 2 Devialet (or they call it 800?) is a big step up from 250, I would like to move in that direction.  I don't think it would be possible for 800 to close the gap, but if small enough could settle....I think.

Could I ask feedback on 800 over 250 please?  I think I only saw a couple of short comments about this comparison.  I would be grateful if anyone could share more insights.

Thanks
KW

KW,

I recently bought an 800 as a second setup and can say other then the obvious lift in dynamic range there is no different in sonic signature from 250, where YOU will gain benefit is not having to drive amp as hard.

Now what I am gonna say here might be controversial but what the heck it's my opinion. Firstly it your waiting for burn in, forget it, sound doesn't change its your ears adjusting to it. The only piece of Hifi that has a scientific reason for burn in/break in is cart needles and speakers and even then it's a matter of hours not 100s of hours.

Now SQ wise I can say with confidence from my opinion that there are MANY things I have heard for the price of the 250/800 that are better, my primary setup Jeff Rowland for example.

BUT what you sacrifice in SQ at that price range you gain in tech, configurability, look, form factor, reduction in cables (potentially SAM) long life cycle due to firmware updates, reduction in amount of units. All are big bonuses!

As impressive as Devialet products are you do need to heed not taking in too much of the marketing BS.. Am I happy with my 800 indeed! It is best small form factor unit and all in one solution I've seen/heard. Have I heard better at same price and less yes, but not with the convenience!

Personally if I only had one system and multiple units, cables and racks weren't an issue I would look elsewhere.


Are they best all in one solution at price probably yes are they best Hifi at the price overall in my opinion not close

Interesting read DBdub. When you say SQ of your other setup is better. In what way do you mean it is? You made me curious.

Thanks,

Pim

Hey Pim, in pretty much every way. The ability of the amp to control and drive my speakers and managed the bottom end in what is consistently a 2ohm load. The way in which it portrays overall tonal balance of a CD, SACD or vinyl, little coloration and plays exactly what is on the source (only bad thing there is a bad recording really shows through) dynamics range is huge, the 800 is 800 watts into 6ohm and my Jeff 740 into 4ohm,Jeff has way more control when driving the amp hard, sonically the sound doesn't change whether at 60db or 110db, sound stage is more 3D and sits cleanly in my listening space and absolutely no fatigue whatsoever!

I've also done a comparo of my 800 against vitus ri-100 (550w) integrated and the 25w SA class A Amp, again both sonically sound better for various reasons!

Leading up to buying my 800 I also looked at some class D and integrated options around the 12-20k options and found quite a few comparable sonically but lost out in the overall integration in one unit, I would have needed an external DAC or a streamer, phono pre etc.

My strong personal opinion is that there is quite a lot of gear out there for less that matches Devialet SQ and I knew that buying the 800, personally I am fortunate enough to be able to buy it for ease of use, clean, functional and a more than acceptable music replication.

my priority was a device that was set and forget that gave me solid SQ.. Not the best sound quality for the money

Don't get me wrong I think the Devialet have an amazing product, especially if an all in one sleek design and minimal real estate is important. But if overall SQ is your main priority you can match it for less.

I think a lot of Devialet owners become blind to what's out there and fall into the slick marketing strategy of Devialet, the 25-30k you pay for a 800 or 17-20k u pay for a 400 ain't small change and there is a lot of hi end gear that will be up there for that price, even taking into account buying additional components such as DACs and phono pres.

To be frank the current marketing used by Devialet is become somewhat farcical ( not that they are only ones to do it) look at SAM freq response claims on speakers 28hz at what DB on a pair of LS50s. I measured my magico s3 last weekend with REW groundplain and in room and the claimed 11hz was well in the totally inaudible range, SAM on only so a slight DB lift down 3hz then matched factory curve. sAm makes a difference but not to their claims I can tell you that, phantom collateral is another example, sure it might end up being the best small form factor speaker on market, but silly claims like 1000x better then anything and aligning it to be tower killers is just absurd. Only need to look at the similar priced PV B&W sub to understand the limitation of physics relating to form factor, driver size etc.

I think for everything right Devialet are doing right now they are also driving customers away, they are treating it's more tech savvy consumers like idiots!

Peace and again I do love my Devialet but also I ain't afraid not to be a fan boy where they are going wrong