Room correction

[ada]

My wife and I have an emotional connection with vinyl and without a matter of sounding better than digital or not, we really would like to have a vinyl addition to our setup.

I was curious about possibility of room correction when I use the photo stage of the Expert 220 Pro, I am almost sure it is not possible but if anyone can reply to my idea, it will be wonderful.

Here is what I am planning:

Turntable -> Expert Pro -> Mac Mini (over USB as it is bidirectional) -> Room correction with AULAB + Dirac (Input Devialet USB) -> Output Devialet USB or Air (much better if possible) -> Speakers

I know all the parts possible other than having the Devialet in the middle as an input device for the USB of the computer and at the same time output device for the same computer, I am almost sure it is not possible but as I mentioned above, I wanted to see if anyone else tried this kind of thing before.

[Elztalbiker]

By your idea you will miss a lot of performance level and emotions

Sorry for this result


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[ogs]

This will not work unless a digital loop could be enabled on the amplifier. This has actually been discussed, but has not been provided for. The original thought of a convolver in the amp's DSP has been dismissed (AFAIK) due to being technically impossible. The last option is to run the signal through Roon (as a radio station https://community.roonlabs.com/t/can-a-l...roon/42373 ) or the MiniDSP SHD, but then you'd have to use a RIAA separate from your Devialet.
The digital loop would require some heavy DIY for the external processing as I do not think one can buy this in a shop...

Hmm.. a digital loop would probably work with the MiniDSP SHD Studio! Imagine EQ+Dirac 2.0 processing. No DIY at all, just a learning curve

[ada]

By your idea you will miss a lot of performance level and emotions

Sorry for this result

I am OK to face the USB jitter if that's the concern here. Other than that I don't believe there is a performance impact in this flow as Devialet converts any kind of analog signal to digital (in the ADH) to process and amplify it. This means the signal that comes into Devialet's processing unit should be identical to the one that goes out from the Devialet's USB out. After that, I will get the 24-bit 96k signal and I will apply a Dirac EQ over it (that has measured my house with a 24-bit 96k mic) and I will move out the processed signal to Devialet AIR or Devialet's USB in the 24-bit 96k format and then Devialet will process it in 24-bit 96Hz format and send to the speakers.

This is already what Devailet does when you send an analog signal to it without the USB out and USB in part is not being in place. My only problem, after using Dirac, I can't stand the sound of my room without the room correction as the difference is like day and night. (I have physical room treatment in place but I am an ex-pat in the country, I don't want to invest more to fix the room as Dirac does a great job for me for a very small amount of money)

This will not work unless a digital loop could be enabled on the amplifier. This has actually been discussed, but has not been provided for. The original thought of a convolver in the amp's DSP has been dismissed (AFAIK) due to being technically impossible. The last option is to run the signal through Roon (as a radio station https://community.roonlabs.com/t/can-a-l...roon/42373 ) or the MiniDSP SHD, but then you'd have to use a RIAA separate from your Devialet.
The digital loop would require some heavy DIY for the external processing as I do not think one can buy this in a shop...

Hmm.. a digital loop would probably work with the MiniDSP SHD Studio! Imagine EQ+Dirac 2.0 processing. No DIY at all, just a learning curve

I give up about the idea of a built-in convolver from Devialet a long time ago. That's why I am looking for a way to get the turntable's signal already digitally processed by Devialet (as by today if you select the input source as line-in and connect a USB cable, you can send the same signal that Devialet plays from the turntable) and processed in a computer and being sent back to the Devialet. But I think the problem here is you have to keep the amp in line-in input source to be able to capture the signal to the USB out. That's why I can't send the signal back to USB or AIR and listen to the processed signal.

What I am chasing here is something like this:

1. The turntable is connected to Devialet's line-in and playing
   
2. Devialet uses AIR or USB as the input source
   
3. My computer is connected to the Devialet via USB and uses the USB out of Devialet to capture the signal coming from the turntable
   
4. My computer processes the signal and applies the Dirac filters and sends the signal to Devialet's AIR or USB input
   

The only missing part in this picture is step 2. Devialet only captures the turntable's signal and sends it to the USB out in case the input source is selected as line-in.

And yes, if I don't use Devialet as the ADC (analog to digital converter) I can achieve what I am looking for but I am not convinced with that, I am only fine in case Devialet is the one converts the analog signal to the digital. I don't want to buy a 2K-3K Euro ADC only for applying room correction to my limited turntable collection.

[David A]

Two thoughts:

1- The Devialet has a single input to output signal path. There is no way of separating the processing stages between phono processing and later stages and inserting external processing in the signal path. Once you select an input, the signal passes along a set path to the speaker outputs and there is no way of interrupting that path.

That means that if you use phono processing in the Devialet you have to do room correction before the Devialet so you would need to convert the unprocessed phono signal to digital, apply room correction without phono processing, convert the digital room corrected signal back to analog and pass that analog signal to the phono inputs on the Devialet and the analog signal the Devialet receives would have to be at a level it is capable of accepting. I don't know whether that is possible.

An alternative would be to pass the analog turntable output to an external digital phono stage, pass that digital output to another external device for the application of digital room correction, and pass the digital output from that device to a digital input on the Devialet for processing as a normal digital input. The Devialet would not provide phono processing with this approach but it would be simpler to implement.


2- There is an alternative and that is to use physical acoustic treatments rather than digital room correction and this has the advantage of simply letting you use the Devialet's phono input in the normal way with no external digital signal processing steps. There may be problems with this approach if your system is in your living room and your wife has a big say in the interior decoration aspects of how the room is set up because physical room treatments are both big and not overly physically attractive, they have to be placed in particular locations to work most effectively, and they definitely change the appearance of the room as a result. There is no way around that. I have a physically treated room for my audio system but it isn't my living room, it's a room set up as a dedicated listening room solely for listening to the audio system and the issues I just mentioned are not issues in this room. They may very well be in your room. The other problem is working out what treatment products you need and where to place them and you can find lots of competing advice on how to do that plus I can tell you from personal experience that it's possible to take the same products and place them in different locations of the same room and get different results, with some locations delivering different but good results and other locations just delivering bad results. Getting a good result which really satisfies you greatly is a bit of a trial and error approach and the trial and error process can take a lot longer than you may think.

Acoustic room treatment and digital room correction do different things and produce different audible results. There are some things that both of them do to the sound and there are some things that each do that the other cannot do. They are not interchangeable. My preference if I had to choose one, and I stress that this is my preference and others may very well disagree, is for acoustic room treatment. I suspect a combination of the two would be better than either singly but I've had no way of trying that. I do use digital room correction with the TV system I have in my living room and it works well, but the overall effect of the result is different to what I get in the acoustically treated room where the audio system is, so I do have experience with both. Digital room correction is a lot easier to achieve good results with and is a lot less visually disturbing in a living room than a collection of physical acoustic treatments can be, especially when some of those treatments are placed directly in front of windows and block the view. Physical acoustic treatments will not be a viable option for a lot of people but they are an option and they do offer benefits you don't get with digital room correction for those who can use them in their room.

[ogs]

But I think the problem here is you have to keep the amp in line-in input source to be able to capture the signal to the USB out. That's why I can't send the signal back to USB or AIR and listen to the processed signal.

That is where the loop idea comes in. One would lock one digital input as 'return' and enable one output as digital out. The digital out can be enabled today and transmits whichever input you listen to. The source selector would work as normal.

So with the loop enabled you'd get no sound unless a digital signal arrive at the 'return'. If this is two SPDIF connectors, an SPDIF cable plugged from out to return would produce sound.
This would be possible on today's Expert amplifiers. Whether Devialet would do something like that is an entirely different matter of course.

[Elztalbiker]

Turntable to separate phonopre with usb ( ProJect ) than digital to Mac, Dirac, Devialet

or

Turntable to separate phonopre without usb to seperate
A/D converter all digital to Mac, Dirac, Devialet

or

Turntable to Devialet, usb to Mac, storage files an than playback the recorded files via Dirac to Devialet /. not simultaneously

or

Turntable to Trinnov Amethyst with room correction and analog to Devialet

all with a less of performance

Room treatment is the best way, ever!

[petrik]

If you are happy with a parametric EQ, then just contact Devialet and they will give you a custom config file that applies your parametric EQ. Devialet Expert Pro can easily perform the parametric EQ. You just need to specify what kind of parametric EQ you need.

[disarmamant]

You could use the Devialet Expert to rip all your LP’s to your computer hard drive, or to a NAS through the Devialet Bi directional USB port.

Then play the ripped files with room correction in the normal way.


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[ogs]

Absolutely, but there is a reason why some use lots of energy to find ways to play vinyl through a digital system, in particular if the system uses digital correction. It's quite easy to 'rip' vinyl to files and play them. If I rip, say 100 albums, to files it will take some time to do properly. I then upgrade my vinyl rig. New player, new tonearm and new cartridge. The new rig sounds much better than the old. I should then rip the 100 albums again... Much better to just play vinyl through the system.