220 to 440 ROI

[Bertie]

I’m a bit of a bugger for buying stuff blind, and that’s kinda how I ended up with my current system: 220 pro, Focal Sopra 2s, Rel S/812. I’ve long since accepted my destiny as a habitual upgrader and am already anticipating a second S/812. After that, I thought I was on course for a pre loved Gryphon Diablo 300, which would mean an upgrade cost of approx. 6k from my 220. Now, I don’t know if my 220’s actually ex demo (dealer I bought off advertised it as such, but the shipping box it arrived in suggests customer trade in) but seems to me the little beauty’s getting better over the 2 month period I’ve had it! Is that a thing? 
Anyways, I’m now thinking can it really get much better than this? Do I need the Diablo’s class A magic or shall I just buy another 220 and, if so, will it make any palpable difference? I certainly don’t need any more power but this dual mono thing intrigues me. BTW I’m not using SAM. Don’t say “save your money, then” - I’m too old, have no partner, don’t drink, smoke or do drugs, and the money WILL go on hi-Fi one way or another 🤪

[Delija]

IMHO, with Sopra - Gryphon is a better match.

[Pim]

Go do drugs. Music sounds so much better when you’re stoned.

If you grow it yourself, it’s cheaper too.

[mdconnelly]

A 2nd 220 Pro will definitely sound better - been there, done that.  But, I've heard such good things about the Gryphon... It would be fascinating to hear both and see what you think.  (But @Pim ain't wrong ;-)

[devianet]

I've in the past gone from 220 to 440 and have also trialled 250 vs 1000.

For my ears, going from stereo to dual mono is a huge step up and I would never go back.

[Drifter]

I went from 120 to 220 to 440 and then sold it and moved to another Class D amplifier.
220 to 440 introduces beter control and more dynamics. It is a definite improvement.
The Gryphon has a very different sound signature plus remember you need to add a DAC and streamer (Diablo has the option of adding a DAC module).

[Bertie]

I went from 120 to 220 to 440 and then sold it and moved to another Class D amplifier.
220 to 440 introduces beter control and more dynamics. It is a definite improvement.
The Gryphon has a very different sound signature plus remember you need to add a DAC and streamer (Diablo has the option of adding a DAC module).

Yep, financially the Diablo’s a big stretch. They’re 9k+ with a DAC onboard and that means at least another 2k to stream Roon. Pretty sure 2 S/812s, a 440 and Sopra 2s will be my next move.

[ray1234]

I am using a D400 with Kanta 2 with a SVS PB1000 Pro, I can tell you with the right setup, this combo's detail and transparency is not easy to match with any other system.

For two S812, it depends on your room. Is there anything in particular you are not satisfied with the sound? In most cases, two subwoofers are better than one because it helps to reduce the room mode effects. However, is there any point in the bass region you are not satisfied with now? if not, what is there to improve?

Mind you, you have to do some work with the inputs to make the Devialet sound great ...... I use computer as source and I am using a 10mhz clock connected to DDC which then links to the D400 via AES, the same 10mhz clock also clocks the network switch, the network cable also goes through FMC. As Devialet is all-in-one design, the only tweak possible is with the source. The DDC apparently passes the clock signal into the Devialet via AES, and this gives a marked improvement in the level of details Devailet can produce. With a clock, the Devialet is producing details in line with the top DAC available today, which I find quite amazing for a technology developed 10 years ago.

For tuning, Focal speakers are excellent for air, treble details and bass resolution. Devialet is also excellent in bass production. I don't think even Gryphon is able to beat the Devialet's bass resolution if Devialet is set up correctly. Gryphon however is going to produce a mid range with more texture and less 'thin' sound, because with lots of air it is easy for Focal speakers to sound 'thin' and lack of texture. If using Devialet, focus your tuning and cable matching on regaining the texture. When it is done correctly, the Focal/Devialet produces details that are even more than some Wilson Audio systems. Focal is never going to produce the texture like Wilson Audio speakers, but neither is Wilson Audio speakers able to produce as airy a soundstage as Focal. On my system, I think the texture is still acceptable with Devialet D400.

[thumb5]

...The DDC apparently passes the clock signal into the Devialet via AES, and this gives a marked improvement in the level of details Devailet can produce.

Bear in mind that with an AES connection, there is no separate clock signal; the clock is embedded in the data.  That means the source is in control of the audio sample clock and the Devialet has to extract the sample clock from the data, using an internal phase-locked loop or similar mechanism.  This is generally considered to be an inferior approach to the Devialet being in control of the audio sample clock, as it would be in the case of USB or Ethernet inputs (for example).  Whether or not it produces better sound quality is as always down to your ears and preference.

[audio_engr]

I am using a D400 with Kanta 2 with a SVS PB1000 Pro, I can tell you with the right setup, this combo's detail and transparency is not easy to match with any other system.

For two S812, it depends on your room. Is there anything in particular you are not satisfied with the sound? In most cases, two subwoofers are better than one because it helps to reduce the room mode effects. However, is there any point in the bass region you are not satisfied with now? if not, what is there to improve?

Mind you, you have to do some work with the inputs to make the Devialet sound great ...... I use computer as source and I am using a 10mhz clock connected to DDC which then links to the D400 via AES, the same 10mhz clock also clocks the network switch, the network cable also goes through FMC. As Devialet is all-in-one design, the only tweak possible is with the source. The DDC apparently passes the clock signal into the Devialet via AES, and this gives a marked improvement in the level of details Devailet can produce. With a clock, the Devialet is producing details in line with the top DAC available today, which I find quite amazing for a technology developed 10 years ago.

For tuning, Focal speakers are excellent for air, treble details and bass resolution. Devialet is also excellent in bass production. I don't think even Gryphon is able to beat the Devialet's bass resolution if Devialet is set up correctly. Gryphon however is going to produce a mid range with more texture and less 'thin' sound, because with lots of air it is easy for Focal speakers to sound 'thin' and lack of texture. If using Devialet, focus your tuning and cable matching on regaining the texture. When it is done correctly, the Focal/Devialet produces details that are even more than some Wilson Audio systems. Focal is never going to produce the texture like Wilson Audio speakers, but neither is Wilson Audio speakers able to produce as airy a soundstage as Focal. On my system, I think the texture is still acceptable with Devialet D400.

I have to agree with you 100% on what you said about your D400. I use 440-Pro (earlier D400) and also an external streamer. Devialets do require quite a bit of hard work to set them up well and in complete sync with the rest of the system. And when done well, it is indeed a tough system to overtake. I've been thinking/trying to replace my 440-Pro for the last 2 years and have tried other integrated amps/ Pre-power combos but the Devialets are always so close to their competition or even head-to-head with them, I am still continuing to have them. Once again - I do need to mention that setting them up, understanding their every weak areas and addressing them is of utmost importance. Once achieved, it's quite a "killer kit".