250 Pro vs. 250 Upgrade Review

[Peter van der Laarse]

Hi there,

I am using the Clearaudio Stradivarius MC cartridge now for more than 1 year. It costs € 3.000 ($ 3.800) and it is deadly quiet. At 0dB I can't hear any hiss out of the Electrostatics (new) with my ear on the speaker. Indeed the turntable!!!!...... But oke: everything is mounted in a balanced way and with more than € 25.000 (The Devialet is only € 8.500) on powersupply stuff. Build no expensive turntable system on a bad basis! Start with that first. Tip for the real hobbyist: shielding it yourself by techflex.com (used within Airbus A380): CN is designed to protect sensitive wiring from abrasion while shielding it from high frequency noise. In pro sound environments, power cables and outputs.
Settings 0,53 mV, 100 ohms, Tangential arm Clearaudio.
I am recording all my albums in 24 bits-192 kHz via Audacity and it sounds beautiful: 1739 albums at this moment (Roon). What a work and what a hobby!

Lesson: so don't speak about cartridges, turntables etc. when the complete system isn't build in a balanced way. Look at Kemp elektronics from Amsterdam for example. Devialet is not the problem, the lack on knowledge on the complete system is.....In the US real power out of the outlet is not possible: 230V x 20 A = 4.600W in Europe! My kitchen 380V in the home.
I have a good friend who sells kitchens in New York city (USA) and he says the good German Top-Mieles cannot be delivered there.....Only the cheap stuff, even when the homes are costing milions of dollars.... That's a problem with top Hifi also!
Interesting hobby!

[ogs]

The Ortofon Cadenza Bronze seems like a candidate and may be better suited to the Devialet than the DV XX2-Mk2.

@rbsound, the Cadenza Bronze is a good choice to try, but also the Blue would be good, I think. The output of the Blue is also a tad higher even if the general specs are the same as Bronze.
Hopefully Devialet can fix the issue on the MM input or at a minimum confirm the actual MM input parameters. If the max  impedance is less than 47K it will be important to know when discussing step-up transformers and cartridge loading.

[no32]

Agree I have similar excellent results with Linn kandid

[baddog]

Thanks all. FWIW, I've asked Devialet customer support to take a few measurements of my 250 Pro's phono stage when it goes in to get the Core Infinity board (going to wait until January to do this so I have my unit for the holidays). They haven't said no yet but I'm not hopeful. I would think that this would be an easy way for them to get some data on a particular unit that appears to be not performing to spec.

Still trying to figure out what a very good to excellent cartridge would be that would work well going directly into Devialet's phono stage (no SUT's, etc.). For the reasons here, MM options don't work (I have a pretty good MM cartridge right now) and low output MC's appear to present problems. Any ideas, preferably in the Ortofon (Cadenza Bronze?), Dynavector (XX2-Mk2?), or Soundsmith camp as those are the brands my dealer carries and so, will give me the best chance for a reasonable trade-in?

In short, I rather (if possible) put my $ to a better quality cartridge that is well matched to the Devialet phono stage than get an external phono stage or SUT.

FWIW, and perhaps more than you wish to spend, I am using an Ortofon Cadenza Black with my D440 Pro and am quite pleased with the sound quality.

[Confused]

Thanks all. FWIW, I've asked Devialet customer support to take a few measurements of my 250 Pro's phono stage when it goes in to get the Core Infinity board (going to wait until January to do this so I have my unit for the holidays). They haven't said no yet but I'm not hopeful. I would think that this would be an easy way for them to get some data on a particular unit that appears to be not performing to spec.

Still trying to figure out what a very good to excellent cartridge would be that would work well going directly into Devialet's phono stage (no SUT's, etc.). For the reasons here, MM options don't work (I have a pretty good MM cartridge right now) and low output MC's appear to present problems. Any ideas, preferably in the Ortofon (Cadenza Bronze?), Dynavector (XX2-Mk2?), or Soundsmith camp as those are the brands my dealer carries and so, will give me the best chance for a reasonable trade-in?

In short, I rather (if possible) put my $ to a better quality cartridge that is well matched to the Devialet phono stage than get an external phono stage or SUT.

A while back I attended the 'Ortofon Cartridge Experience tour' when they visited Oxford Audio.  I think what I posted then might be relevant to your question here.  See link below:

https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?...t=windfeld

You mentioned the Cadenza Bronze in an earlier post.  On paper, the Bronze looks like a good choice for a Devialet with an output of 0.4mV.  During the Ortofon demo the Bronze was a cartridge that I liked a lot, it was one of the more natural and 'listenable' cartridges that were demonstrated that day.  I actually found myself thinking of buying a bronze as a second cartridge, the reason being that I have a lot of old vinyl and some of it is not in the best condition or of the best original quality anyway.  So my thinking was that the Bronze might be a decent sounding but also slightly 'forgiving' cartridge for my lesser vinyl.  The problem is that as we moved through the Ortofon range, listening to ever more expensive cartridges, I thought 'jump' from the Cadenza Bronze to the Black was one of the bigger jumps of the day, the Black to me sounded some way ahead in terms of detail and resolution.  The Black has a lower output at 0.33mV, so will have slightly higher hiss versus the Bronze.  However, irrespective of the hiss, I would definitely take the Black over the Bronze.  I think the Black has the kind of detail, resolution and attack that the Devialet deserves.

The Cadenza Black is of course a very expensive cartridge.  Further down the Ortofon range I was extremely impressed as to just how good the Quintet range sounded, definitely the 'bang for buck' choice, and they give far less away to the Cadenza than you might imagine.

[rbsound]

Great responses, thanks again all. Confused, yes I did read your Ortofon tour, great post. On paper anyway for the sound (and budget) I am looking for, I think it will likely come down to either Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (Black might be too "clinical" or unforgiving for me) or the Dynavector XX-2 MKII. Both get great reviews, sounds like the XX2 might be a bit warmer or more rounded. I'm not hopeful or expecting any change in the Devialet phono stage; it is what it is. So here's my game plan.
1. Nail down the cartridge selection. I might be able to demo the XX2 while I still have the borrowed Sutherland phono stage. Then I can see how the XX2 works both directly in the Devialet and through an external phono stage (although not necessarily the phono stage I'd end up with if any). I'd also see how much I like the cartridge.
2. Figure out the phono stage (or SUT) setup. If it works well direct into the Devialet, then great, I'm done. Otherwise I may try another phono stage for comparison and make that decision. Unfortunately I am very space constrained in my equipment cabinet which might limit the phono stage or SUT options.

I'll keep everyone posted. This doesn't unfortunately give me the chance the demo the Cadenza Bronze, but difficult to try every variable. Also, I have still not heard back from Devialet on my request to have take measurements of my phono stage.

[rbsound]

Here's the update folks. I was able to demo a Dynavector XX-2 MKII - whew! What a dramatic difference across the board. So, as expected the XX2, at more than twice the price, outperforms a 2M Black (more about that in a moment), but what was doubly pleasing was that Devialet's internal phono stage also performed in its MC mode.

So this was a two step test. First was isolating the improvement of the XX2 vs. 2M Black by comparing each of these cartridges through the same borrowed phono stage (a decent, but mid-tier Sutherland Insight). I believe the XX2 had enough hours on it to be substantially broken in. The XX2 improves on everything, particularly the tighter bottom, better sound stage, detail and silkier high end (that is, open without being clinical). For the first time I am really enjoying my turntable.

Then I compared the XX2 running through the Sutherland vs. going directly into the Devialet phono stage. There were minor differences (the Sutherland might have been slightly quieter) but the Devialet phono stage more than held its own with this MC cartridge. This was definitely not the case using the MM part of internal phono stage with the 2M Black (as described earlier in this thread). A better phono stage might have yielded different results with the XX2, but it is fair to say that the Devialet is holding its own against a $1400 phono stage.

I am still playing around with the Devialet settings and will continue to listen throughout the weekend and play around with the setup (BTW, any good suggestions for VTA and azimuth measurements?), so no final decision yet. BTW, the Devialet default settings for the XX2 works fairly well (I tried 100 and 200 ohms, and higher level settings, 60 ohms provides a smoother delivery). However, I am very encouraged and hopeful that with the XX2 I have significantly upped my analog game by improving the cartridge as well as accessing the part of the Devialet internal phono stage that works properly.

[baddog]

Interesting update, thanks for sharing. Glad you are finding greater success with the MC cartridge. Do you think you will be keeping the Dynavector? I have always been happy using the Devialet without an external phono stage, though not having tried it with one, I have no opinion on the matter.

In regards to your query on VTA and Azimuth, are you asking about good tools to use to measure and set VTA and Azimuth?

[rbsound]

I just got the DV XX2 yesterday, so I'll need a few more days to know for sure, but I'd say yes, I'll probably keep the XX2. I still have to play around with the cartridge setup a bit as well as the load settings. While I'd probably get better sound quality with a quality external phono stage, not sure its worth the extra $2K or more that I'd need to spend.

This whole turntable/etc. exercise has got me focused on good cartridge setup. The basic stuff (VTF, overhang, horizontal alignment) I understand and the tools are readily available. I've read a few things but I'm still not clear on a good (and manageable) way to measure VTA and azimuth. My tonearm has adjustments for both of these that are straight forward, it is getting the proper measurements that I don't have a game plan for.

[baddog]

Well VTA I know there are a whole bunch of articles from Michael Fremer, same for Azimuth. Depending on how much you want to break the bank, or if you have friends with tools, it can be either relatively straightforward or stress-inducing, depending on the degree of accuracy you are looking for. Or if you are super lucky you have a nearby friend or dealer who can assist.

I have tried to do as much as I can for both using just a very basic set of tools, lots of reading, and tuning by ear.